3 ms·

Say Goodbye to Permissionless Travel

48 points by ourmandave 3y ago

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
Post 9/11 travel restrictions for people not suspected of being a threat - this is a pretty solid victory for terrorism.
- jokethrowaway 3y ago
  It's a great victory for governments whose stupid bureacrauts can play being God once more
- RachelF 3y ago
  Frankly, and with 20 years of hindsight, Bin Laden won. He has caused anti-Muslim feeling in the West, and demonstrated our weakness by badly losing the wars in Afghanistan and creating a mess in Iraq and Syria. He hated the US because of their friendliness with Israel and Saudi Arabia. Israel is more repressive towards the Palestinians, while Saudi Arabia is now also friendly with China who keep their Muslims in concentration camps. So perhaps he won against the USA, but has failed in a more multi-polar world he created?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - yellowapple 3y ago
    > Frankly, and with 20 years of hindsight, Bin Laden won. Frankly, and with one year of hindsight, Bin Laden won.
throwawaysleep 3y ago
Given the friendliness of Cuba with Russia, the EU should just ban their citizens from going to resolve this problem.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  Peace envoys in all shapes and forms are welcome anywhere in the world and are not bound by the usual laws of the land like passport controls. It sets a fine and upstanding example to those back home and to people elsewhere in the world, a wonderful practical form of influential global education capturing hearts and minds with awe. What could possibly go wrong? It does make me wonder if the editors and owners of news organisations, and the reporters are giving away their own subconscious bias.
- sunflowerfly 3y ago
  But why single out Cuba? China is friends with Russia, even likely supplying them with weapons, and is also a “communist”. (Single party) state. Yet we can travel and do business there but not Cuba? It makes little sense.
valianteffort 3y ago
[flagged]
- _8j50 3y ago
  It is one thing to reject critical thinking, it is another level of "mindset" to ridicule those who refuse to part with it. Whether aliens with lasers blew up WTC or if the buildings didn't even exist to begin with or whatver wild theory is not relevant, only evidence is. Did intel agencies conspire to blow it up, in the process maligning their closest ME ally and risk theirs and the US's credibility for a century to come just because they like to conspire? Where is your evidence? Is it possible? The silly things I said earlier are also possible. Even without the buildings collapsing thousands died from fires and debri and tens of thousands saw it first hand which is enough for invading afghanistan. As for the hijackers and bin laden, the fact that they pepared for this and held jihadist islamist beliefs aligned with binladen is enough. The US IC and terrorist connection you are claiming has no evidence so why should anyone believe it? If there is a conspiracy, it's more likely that a lot of Saudi ruling family and government people funded or knew about the attacks. Bin laden not only documented his desire and reasoning to go after WTC, he attempted to bomb them just a few years before 9/11. People don't belive what you do because reason isn't on your side.
  - valianteffort 3y ago
    > Where is your evidence? I would ask the same. The evidence saudi nationals did attack the WTC is weak at best. Some indestructable passports they found amongst the rubble at ground zero? The burden of evidence is much higher because of the CIA's shennanigans throughout the world, and lies told to engage in previous unjustifiable wars like Vietnam. Having faith in a government composed of people who have repeatedly lied to you is stockholm syndrome.
    - _8j50 3y ago
      The passenger list, security footage, passenger descriptions, blackbox all prove saudi nationals hijacked the planes. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim so the ball is in your court to disprove existing evidence and prove CIA involvement. Proof and evidence mean things other people can take and corroborate independently without speculation,presumption or bias.
smackeyacky 3y ago
Its fun that americans only notice these things when its imposed on the US. Travelling to the US as a foreign citizen has always been harder than the reverse. In fact I would say travel being unrestricted has really been a very short term anomoly, and then only for a very small part of the worlds population.
- hintymad 3y ago
  Yeah. Shame on the US government. I also don´t understand why the US government is so afraid of people who can afford international travel to come to the US, yet opens its south borders.
tsuujin 3y ago
I find myself thinking more and more frequently how nice it would be to go back to the carefree days of the early 90s. What a sad state of affairs that is.

48 points by ourmandave 3y ago

Post 9/11 travel restrictions for people not suspected of being a threat - this is a pretty solid victory for terrorism.

jokethrowaway 3y ago
It's a great victory for governments whose stupid bureacrauts can play being God once more
RachelF 3y ago
Frankly, and with 20 years of hindsight, Bin Laden won. He has caused anti-Muslim feeling in the West, and demonstrated our weakness by badly losing the wars in Afghanistan and creating a mess in Iraq and Syria. He hated the US because of their friendliness with Israel and Saudi Arabia. Israel is more repressive towards the Palestinians, while Saudi Arabia is now also friendly with China who keep their Muslims in concentration camps. So perhaps he won against the USA, but has failed in a more multi-polar world he created?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- yellowapple 3y ago
  > Frankly, and with 20 years of hindsight, Bin Laden won. Frankly, and with one year of hindsight, Bin Laden won.

throwawaysleep 3y ago

Given the friendliness of Cuba with Russia, the EU should just ban their citizens from going to resolve this problem.

darkclouds 3y ago
Peace envoys in all shapes and forms are welcome anywhere in the world and are not bound by the usual laws of the land like passport controls. It sets a fine and upstanding example to those back home and to people elsewhere in the world, a wonderful practical form of influential global education capturing hearts and minds with awe. What could possibly go wrong? It does make me wonder if the editors and owners of news organisations, and the reporters are giving away their own subconscious bias.
sunflowerfly 3y ago
But why single out Cuba? China is friends with Russia, even likely supplying them with weapons, and is also a “communist”. (Single party) state. Yet we can travel and do business there but not Cuba? It makes little sense.

valianteffort 3y ago

[flagged]

_8j50 3y ago
It is one thing to reject critical thinking, it is another level of "mindset" to ridicule those who refuse to part with it. Whether aliens with lasers blew up WTC or if the buildings didn't even exist to begin with or whatver wild theory is not relevant, only evidence is. Did intel agencies conspire to blow it up, in the process maligning their closest ME ally and risk theirs and the US's credibility for a century to come just because they like to conspire? Where is your evidence? Is it possible? The silly things I said earlier are also possible. Even without the buildings collapsing thousands died from fires and debri and tens of thousands saw it first hand which is enough for invading afghanistan. As for the hijackers and bin laden, the fact that they pepared for this and held jihadist islamist beliefs aligned with binladen is enough. The US IC and terrorist connection you are claiming has no evidence so why should anyone believe it? If there is a conspiracy, it's more likely that a lot of Saudi ruling family and government people funded or knew about the attacks. Bin laden not only documented his desire and reasoning to go after WTC, he attempted to bomb them just a few years before 9/11. People don't belive what you do because reason isn't on your side.
- valianteffort 3y ago
  > Where is your evidence? I would ask the same. The evidence saudi nationals did attack the WTC is weak at best. Some indestructable passports they found amongst the rubble at ground zero? The burden of evidence is much higher because of the CIA's shennanigans throughout the world, and lies told to engage in previous unjustifiable wars like Vietnam. Having faith in a government composed of people who have repeatedly lied to you is stockholm syndrome.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    The passenger list, security footage, passenger descriptions, blackbox all prove saudi nationals hijacked the planes. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim so the ball is in your court to disprove existing evidence and prove CIA involvement. Proof and evidence mean things other people can take and corroborate independently without speculation,presumption or bias.

smackeyacky 3y ago

Its fun that americans only notice these things when its imposed on the US. Travelling to the US as a foreign citizen has always been harder than the reverse. In fact I would say travel being unrestricted has really been a very short term anomoly, and then only for a very small part of the worlds population.

hintymad 3y ago
Yeah. Shame on the US government. I also don´t understand why the US government is so afraid of people who can afford international travel to come to the US, yet opens its south borders.

tsuujin 3y ago

I find myself thinking more and more frequently how nice it would be to go back to the carefree days of the early 90s. What a sad state of affairs that is.