4 ms·

I'm not a Roboto fan. I think Gruber sums it up the best: http://daringfireball.net/2011/10/font_hipsters http://daringfireball.net/2011/10/font_hipsters

grantheaslip 15y ago
I have no idea how much you know about type design, but I get the sense that the vast majority of people disparaging Roboto don't actually know shit about typography, and are just parroting what's been said by a handful of bloggers (many of whom also aren't particularly well versed). If a lot of these guys were asked to rate a bunch of unnamed fonts without the benefit of the internet to tell them what they think about them, they would probably make some terrible font snob faux pas. I'm not an expert of typography, but to my eyes, it's a nice, clean, readable screen font. So is the Droid font family. It's not my absolute favourite, but there are more pressing issues in the world.
- Steveism 15y ago
  John Gruber is extremely well versed in typography. He talks at great length about typefaces in his podcast and has worked for Bare Bones Software on BBEdit, a well known text editor. I would tend to trust his judgements on this matter.
  - mda 15y ago
    How about you trust your own eyes and feelings about this sort of things?
    - Steveism 15y ago
      All I did was mention that I agreed with Gruber not that he swayed me one way or the other. I think the fonts in ICS along with the rest of the Android interface is just awful. And obviously saying that in a thread which would appeal to an android user would go over like a lead ballon. Just thinking for myself.
      - ajross 15y ago
        I'll put up good money that you couldn't tell the difference between Helvetica Neue and Roboto in a blind test. Calling a near clone font "awful" is just dumb, sorry.
        Steveism 15y ago
        I'll choose to ignore the insult. Actually, I'm a web designer and I could quite easily tell them apart. Couldn't you?
        rimantas 15y ago
        Near clones have a big potential to be awful. Uncanny valley and all that.
  - grantheaslip 15y ago
    Gruber does seem to know a lot, thought I'm not sure that talking about type on your podcast or working for a company that develops a text editor exactly proves that. That said, he's clearly got a snarky agenda about Android, which makes me take anything he writes about it with a grain of salt. What annoys me is not so much Gruber or other bloggers having an opinion, it's the followers who take what they write as fact. Roboto probably isn't a font for the ages, but it seems to do what it set out to do very well. The people who worked on it aren't idiots. Android has its issues, but I'm sick of the little cabal of Apple writers who portray it and everything surrounding it as a trainwreck.
    - skeletonjelly 15y ago
      Gruber knows a lot according to Gruber. And his legions of fans.
      - snotrockets 15y ago
        It seems the word "only" was omitted from your comment.
- karl_nerd 15y ago
  Typographica featured a more educated slashing blogpost about Roboto: http://typographica.org/on-typography/roboto-typeface-is-a-four-headed-frankenstein/ http://typographica.org/on-typography/roboto-typeface-is-a-f...
  - mtts 15y ago
    This is actually a very educational article. To my layman's eyes, at least, which found Roboto a bit "off" or "wobbly" but couldn't figure out why that was exactly.
joshma 15y ago
Gruber's post contains nothing substantive except for "The criticism is simply that Roboto is ungainly, homely, unharmonious." The remainder of the post is a diatribe that only succeeds in saying "nobody else likes it either."
- Steveism 15y ago
  Well, he clearly felt that three adjectives to describe the font was sufficient. I would have to agree. Of course everything on Daring Fireball is normally in the context of how a certain topic pertains to Apple which the rest of the article covers succinctly.
- bane 15y ago
  I'd say it was more: "Roboto is ungainly, homely, unharmonious and it looks exactly like Helvetica, which of course is gainly, beautiful and harmonious."
sad_panda 15y ago
JC almighty. Why do so many people need to have such STRONG OPINIONS about everything that isn't what they happen to own?
- icebraining 15y ago
  Well, if you're talking about Gruber, having opinions is pretty much his job.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    Is having opinions Gruber's job or reinforcing them?
cageface 15y ago
I've been using an Android phone recently after being iOS-only for the last two years and it's really opened my eyes to the agenda of people like Gruber. Don't expect him to give any Google product a fair shake. His recent gushing review of the hideous skeuomorphisms of iPhoto for iOS demonstrates what passes for tech journalism these days.
- sad_panda 15y ago
  Lots of tech journalism is like Fox News in its intellectual dishonesty. I know I've been on a jag these past several posts about it, but all the covert agendas and hyper-polarized opinions (page views!) is really doing major damage to the quality of the discourse in practically all online tech communities.
chrisrhoden 15y ago
Gruber doesn't sum anything up. The post you linked to states that everyone claiming that the font isn't very bad or defending it is wrong. He doesn't say anything else. It's very very clear that he doesn't care to give anything Android related a single positive thought. I don't care why, it's not something I choose to engage with, but you can't honestly suggest that (1) the linked article actually said anything other than, "I know you are, but what am I," or that (2) ANYTHING Gruber says about Android can ever be taken at face value after his very long and well documented tendency to go beyond the truth to disparage it. I think that an argument can easily be made that the font doesn't look classically right on a large screen. On the devices I have seen it on (especially because the weight is usually so low that the terminators are essentially invisible) it looks just fine. But guys, seriously, don't use this on a webpage.
cliffbean 15y ago
I read a lot of font blog posts and find them impressive, yet ultimately unhelpful. They discuss similarities and differences with other fonts in extraordinary detail. They show images of individual glyphs enlarged beyond practicality and pick at the details. They talk about the people who designed the fonts and their reputations. They talk about the companies who funded them and their motivations. They throw about words like "casual", "rigid", "cheerful", "fresh", "clean", and "rhythm". Has anyone done any A/B testing? How about controlled surveys? I'd like to see actual data collected from normal people who don't know Helvetica by name.
- stewf 15y ago
  I understand your frustration if you come from a field with a data-based approach. But one doesn't measure good typeface design by data alone. Sure, there are such things as readability studies that can inform a design, but typography is one of those many crafts that are measured by the eyes of experienced experts and discerning users, not A/B tests.

grantheaslip 15y ago

I have no idea how much you know about type design, but I get the sense that the vast majority of people disparaging Roboto don't actually know shit about typography, and are just parroting what's been said by a handful of bloggers (many of whom also aren't particularly well versed). If a lot of these guys were asked to rate a bunch of unnamed fonts without the benefit of the internet to tell them what they think about them, they would probably make some terrible font snob faux pas. I'm not an expert of typography, but to my eyes, it's a nice, clean, readable screen font. So is the Droid font family. It's not my absolute favourite, but there are more pressing issues in the world.

Steveism 15y ago
John Gruber is extremely well versed in typography. He talks at great length about typefaces in his podcast and has worked for Bare Bones Software on BBEdit, a well known text editor. I would tend to trust his judgements on this matter.
- mda 15y ago
  How about you trust your own eyes and feelings about this sort of things?
  - Steveism 15y ago
    All I did was mention that I agreed with Gruber not that he swayed me one way or the other. I think the fonts in ICS along with the rest of the Android interface is just awful. And obviously saying that in a thread which would appeal to an android user would go over like a lead ballon. Just thinking for myself.
    - ajross 15y ago
      I'll put up good money that you couldn't tell the difference between Helvetica Neue and Roboto in a blind test. Calling a near clone font "awful" is just dumb, sorry.
      - Steveism 15y ago
        I'll choose to ignore the insult. Actually, I'm a web designer and I could quite easily tell them apart. Couldn't you?
      - rimantas 15y ago
        Near clones have a big potential to be awful. Uncanny valley and all that.
- grantheaslip 15y ago
  Gruber does seem to know a lot, thought I'm not sure that talking about type on your podcast or working for a company that develops a text editor exactly proves that. That said, he's clearly got a snarky agenda about Android, which makes me take anything he writes about it with a grain of salt. What annoys me is not so much Gruber or other bloggers having an opinion, it's the followers who take what they write as fact. Roboto probably isn't a font for the ages, but it seems to do what it set out to do very well. The people who worked on it aren't idiots. Android has its issues, but I'm sick of the little cabal of Apple writers who portray it and everything surrounding it as a trainwreck.
  - skeletonjelly 15y ago
    Gruber knows a lot according to Gruber. And his legions of fans.
    - snotrockets 15y ago
      It seems the word "only" was omitted from your comment.
karl_nerd 15y ago
Typographica featured a more educated slashing blogpost about Roboto: http://typographica.org/on-typography/roboto-typeface-is-a-four-headed-frankenstein/ http://typographica.org/on-typography/roboto-typeface-is-a-f...
- mtts 15y ago
  This is actually a very educational article. To my layman's eyes, at least, which found Roboto a bit "off" or "wobbly" but couldn't figure out why that was exactly.

joshma 15y ago

Gruber's post contains nothing substantive except for "The criticism is simply that Roboto is ungainly, homely, unharmonious." The remainder of the post is a diatribe that only succeeds in saying "nobody else likes it either."

Steveism 15y ago
Well, he clearly felt that three adjectives to describe the font was sufficient. I would have to agree. Of course everything on Daring Fireball is normally in the context of how a certain topic pertains to Apple which the rest of the article covers succinctly.
bane 15y ago
I'd say it was more: "Roboto is ungainly, homely, unharmonious and it looks exactly like Helvetica, which of course is gainly, beautiful and harmonious."

sad_panda 15y ago

JC almighty. Why do so many people need to have such STRONG OPINIONS about everything that isn't what they happen to own?

icebraining 15y ago
Well, if you're talking about Gruber, having opinions is pretty much his job.
- fpgeek 15y ago
  Is having opinions Gruber's job or reinforcing them?

cageface 15y ago

I've been using an Android phone recently after being iOS-only for the last two years and it's really opened my eyes to the agenda of people like Gruber. Don't expect him to give any Google product a fair shake. His recent gushing review of the hideous skeuomorphisms of iPhoto for iOS demonstrates what passes for tech journalism these days.

sad_panda 15y ago
Lots of tech journalism is like Fox News in its intellectual dishonesty. I know I've been on a jag these past several posts about it, but all the covert agendas and hyper-polarized opinions (page views!) is really doing major damage to the quality of the discourse in practically all online tech communities.

chrisrhoden 15y ago

Gruber doesn't sum anything up. The post you linked to states that everyone claiming that the font isn't very bad or defending it is wrong. He doesn't say anything else. It's very very clear that he doesn't care to give anything Android related a single positive thought. I don't care why, it's not something I choose to engage with, but you can't honestly suggest that (1) the linked article actually said anything other than, "I know you are, but what am I," or that (2) ANYTHING Gruber says about Android can ever be taken at face value after his very long and well documented tendency to go beyond the truth to disparage it. I think that an argument can easily be made that the font doesn't look classically right on a large screen. On the devices I have seen it on (especially because the weight is usually so low that the terminators are essentially invisible) it looks just fine. But guys, seriously, don't use this on a webpage.

cliffbean 15y ago

I read a lot of font blog posts and find them impressive, yet ultimately unhelpful. They discuss similarities and differences with other fonts in extraordinary detail. They show images of individual glyphs enlarged beyond practicality and pick at the details. They talk about the people who designed the fonts and their reputations. They talk about the companies who funded them and their motivations. They throw about words like "casual", "rigid", "cheerful", "fresh", "clean", and "rhythm". Has anyone done any A/B testing? How about controlled surveys? I'd like to see actual data collected from normal people who don't know Helvetica by name.

stewf 15y ago
I understand your frustration if you come from a field with a data-based approach. But one doesn't measure good typeface design by data alone. Sure, there are such things as readability studies that can inform a design, but typography is one of those many crafts that are measured by the eyes of experienced experts and discerning users, not A/B tests.