4 ms·

A similar example: educating prisoners reduces recidivism. Feels obvious, right? Education leads to jobs, jobs lead to money, money means less need to do crime.

A similar example: educating prisoners reduces recidivism. Feels obvious, right? Education leads to jobs, jobs lead to money, money means less need to do crime. But then you get these "whaddya mean prisoners get free college but I have to pay, prison should be a punishment" takes, and so whenever one of these programs gets too effective and popular, it's liable to get killed. This is actually the first year Pell grants have been available to prisoners since it was banned 30 years ago.

ipcress_file 3y ago
I was at Millhaven, a maximum security institution in Ontario, a few years ago. The prisoners told me that only 10 of them could attend university courses at a time. The librarian confirmed it.
pohuing 3y ago
> But then you get these... They're not even wrong. But isn't the obvious answer to make higher education accessible to everyone, instead of just those with capital?!
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  I think another obvious answer would be to make community college classes available to prisoners. In California (and other places) it’s very easy to get community college for free regardless of income level. Doing this more widely and offering people in prison CC classes for free means that this isn’t something “special” only people in prison get. You could even take a page out of Georgia Tech and similar universities’ books and offer prisoners online versions of classes with prerecorded materials + a TA with office hours and that they can email for questions to relatively cheaply deploy classes in prisons without needing to spend a professor’s time and without the security concerns of them entering the prison.
amatecha 3y ago
"whaddya mean prisoners get free college but I have to pay" When people say that shit (because they do), I respond: yeah, hahah, that's a good point isn't it? :) Why doesn't everyone get free college? :)
- chrisandchris 3y ago
  Welcome to Europe (where college/university is "free" for every resident)? It's not like it's not feasible.
  - challeng3 3y ago
    Not in "Europe", and not in the EU as such. Only in some specific countries. Please don't generalize.
    - chrisandchris 3y ago
      Ok, a bit more precise: Of the 23 countries listed [1] on this site, all of them have tuition fees which are much lower than the US. A first sight shows Latvia as highest with up to 9900 EUR per academic year. Europe has 44 sovereign states. You are correct, it's not "all" and "Europe" in general. But the sentiment (and the main difference) vs. US is visible and my point stands: "free" education is possible. [1] https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

ipcress_file 3y ago

I was at Millhaven, a maximum security institution in Ontario, a few years ago. The prisoners told me that only 10 of them could attend university courses at a time. The librarian confirmed it.

pohuing 3y ago

> But then you get these... They're not even wrong. But isn't the obvious answer to make higher education accessible to everyone, instead of just those with capital?!

Shawnj2 3y ago
I think another obvious answer would be to make community college classes available to prisoners. In California (and other places) it’s very easy to get community college for free regardless of income level. Doing this more widely and offering people in prison CC classes for free means that this isn’t something “special” only people in prison get. You could even take a page out of Georgia Tech and similar universities’ books and offer prisoners online versions of classes with prerecorded materials + a TA with office hours and that they can email for questions to relatively cheaply deploy classes in prisons without needing to spend a professor’s time and without the security concerns of them entering the prison.

amatecha 3y ago

"whaddya mean prisoners get free college but I have to pay" When people say that shit (because they do), I respond: yeah, hahah, that's a good point isn't it? :) Why doesn't everyone get free college? :)

chrisandchris 3y ago
Welcome to Europe (where college/university is "free" for every resident)? It's not like it's not feasible.
- challeng3 3y ago
  Not in "Europe", and not in the EU as such. Only in some specific countries. Please don't generalize.
  - chrisandchris 3y ago
    Ok, a bit more precise: Of the 23 countries listed [1] on this site, all of them have tuition fees which are much lower than the US. A first sight shows Latvia as highest with up to 9900 EUR per academic year. Europe has 44 sovereign states. You are correct, it's not "all" and "Europe" in general. But the sentiment (and the main difference) vs. US is visible and my point stands: "free" education is possible. [1] https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees