5 ms·

Suspect Has Witness that Doesn't Lie: His Metrocard

15 points by gabrielroth 18y ago

delackner 18y ago
I am troubled that the US justice system seems devoid of a basic understanding of modern technology. These cards don't in any reasonable sense identify a person's whereabouts. They are cloneable, easily used by anyone. They are in no way tied to a particular person.
- ciscoriordan 18y ago
  I am troubled that the this guy's Metrocard is the only reason he's not in a jail right now.
  - light3 18y ago
    but is it really his Metrocard :P
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
- ars 18y ago
  You missed a big point. It's not that it's perfect proof, court cases never have that. It's evidence, that's all. When you put that together with other information it all adds up to a picture. In the computer world you are used to perfect security or it's useless. It's not like that in most fields though.
- hs 18y ago
  have you read the article? it gives an example of a murderer who tried to fool metrocard ... but failed the metrocard itself cannot be used to identify a person's whereabout; however, it can be used to constrain the movement the key word in that article is "physically" ... the metrocard data is used to determine how physically plausible an action is for example, one uses metrocard at 9amET in new york, then someone get killed in LA at 10amET, s/he can't be physically possible candidate even if ALL govt witness say so of course, orthogonal info help too, a phone call at 930amET or even 705amET ATM withdrawal (with pic)
- yummyfajitas 18y ago
  Not just the metrocard, also a photo. Timeline: Bus to "Payomatic". Buddy cashes check, photograph taken, Jones visible in background of photo. Subway to girlfriend. So everything fits. The truly scary part of the story: During the interrogation, he said, it occurred to him that he had used his MetroCard on the bus and the subway, and he asked the police to check it. A detective took the card briefly, and then gave it back to him, and there was no further discussion about the card, he said.
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    During the interrogation... he asked the police to check it. That's the scary part of the story, all right. Perhaps it's time to repost a surprisingly useful BoingBoing link: http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.ht... Attention Conservation Notice: The theme of this video, in free-verse form, is: Don't talk to the police. Don't talk to the police. That's what lawyers are for. The Fifth Amendment is your friend. Don't talk to the police. If you don't just nod when you read this you really need to watch the video.
    - elai 18y ago
      How about Canada?
      - mechanical_fish 18y ago
        An excellent question. I'd love to see the equivalent of this argument for other countries, just out of curiosity. Any Canadian lawyers in the house?
swdesignguy 18y ago
Credit card transactions would be the every man's evidence of whereabouts.
- hs 18y ago
  i do keep ALL printed transactions, from grocery to ATM (where banks do photograph the user) just in case
  - josefresco 18y ago
    Dude, relax. Your paper receipts are not needed, your bank has a digital record.
    - lpgauth 18y ago
      It always good to keep a copy, you never know when you'll get overcharged for tip or something of the like.
  - tricky 18y ago
    I do this too, but for different reasons. It just seems like interesting personal data I could analyze some day. Does anyone know a practical way to grab this data electronically for analysis? I have shoeboxes full of receipts... I could tell where, when, and what I bought for the past 10 years. Merge that with photographs and emails and I've got a heck of a personal journal... problem is, i can't figure out how to enter the data short of hiring someone.
    - factor0 18y ago
      Could you use Amazon's Mechanical Turk?
      - tricky 18y ago
        Good idea. i'd just have to have the neighbor kid scan everything in, first.
immad 18y ago
Kind off gives me an idea to make a special card that one can carry that is somehow linked to your identity and records all your whereabouts in a way that can't be faked. Then if you ever have to prove that you were in a certain place you can give the card. Obviously it would make it pretty hard if you were lying so no one would want to carry it :) (ignoring the various technology restrictions of this scheme)
- robg 18y ago
  Card? Why not an implant!?
- briansmith 18y ago
  The trick is to make it so nobody but you can track your movement.

15 points by gabrielroth 18y ago

I am troubled that the US justice system seems devoid of a basic understanding of modern technology. These cards don't in any reasonable sense identify a person's whereabouts. They are cloneable, easily used by anyone. They are in no way tied to a particular person.

ciscoriordan 18y ago
I am troubled that the this guy's Metrocard is the only reason he's not in a jail right now.
- light3 18y ago
  but is it really his Metrocard :P
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
ars 18y ago
You missed a big point. It's not that it's perfect proof, court cases never have that. It's evidence, that's all. When you put that together with other information it all adds up to a picture. In the computer world you are used to perfect security or it's useless. It's not like that in most fields though.
hs 18y ago
have you read the article? it gives an example of a murderer who tried to fool metrocard ... but failed the metrocard itself cannot be used to identify a person's whereabout; however, it can be used to constrain the movement the key word in that article is "physically" ... the metrocard data is used to determine how physically plausible an action is for example, one uses metrocard at 9amET in new york, then someone get killed in LA at 10amET, s/he can't be physically possible candidate even if ALL govt witness say so of course, orthogonal info help too, a phone call at 930amET or even 705amET ATM withdrawal (with pic)
yummyfajitas 18y ago
Not just the metrocard, also a photo. Timeline: Bus to "Payomatic". Buddy cashes check, photograph taken, Jones visible in background of photo. Subway to girlfriend. So everything fits. The truly scary part of the story: During the interrogation, he said, it occurred to him that he had used his MetroCard on the bus and the subway, and he asked the police to check it. A detective took the card briefly, and then gave it back to him, and there was no further discussion about the card, he said.
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  During the interrogation... he asked the police to check it. That's the scary part of the story, all right. Perhaps it's time to repost a surprisingly useful BoingBoing link: http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.ht... Attention Conservation Notice: The theme of this video, in free-verse form, is: Don't talk to the police. Don't talk to the police. That's what lawyers are for. The Fifth Amendment is your friend. Don't talk to the police. If you don't just nod when you read this you really need to watch the video.
  - elai 18y ago
    How about Canada?
    - mechanical_fish 18y ago
      An excellent question. I'd love to see the equivalent of this argument for other countries, just out of curiosity. Any Canadian lawyers in the house?

swdesignguy 18y ago

Credit card transactions would be the every man's evidence of whereabouts.

hs 18y ago
i do keep ALL printed transactions, from grocery to ATM (where banks do photograph the user) just in case
- josefresco 18y ago
  Dude, relax. Your paper receipts are not needed, your bank has a digital record.
  - lpgauth 18y ago
    It always good to keep a copy, you never know when you'll get overcharged for tip or something of the like.
- tricky 18y ago
  I do this too, but for different reasons. It just seems like interesting personal data I could analyze some day. Does anyone know a practical way to grab this data electronically for analysis? I have shoeboxes full of receipts... I could tell where, when, and what I bought for the past 10 years. Merge that with photographs and emails and I've got a heck of a personal journal... problem is, i can't figure out how to enter the data short of hiring someone.
  - factor0 18y ago
    Could you use Amazon's Mechanical Turk?
    - tricky 18y ago
      Good idea. i'd just have to have the neighbor kid scan everything in, first.

immad 18y ago

Kind off gives me an idea to make a special card that one can carry that is somehow linked to your identity and records all your whereabouts in a way that can't be faked. Then if you ever have to prove that you were in a certain place you can give the card. Obviously it would make it pretty hard if you were lying so no one would want to carry it :) (ignoring the various technology restrictions of this scheme)

robg 18y ago
Card? Why not an implant!?
briansmith 18y ago
The trick is to make it so nobody but you can track your movement.