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> We know the toy will break if it's repeatedly thrown down the stairs, so we impose a rule that "we don't do that in our house" For many parents, the toy is e

by HWR_14 3y ago

> We know the toy will break if it's repeatedly thrown down the stairs, so we impose a rule that "we don't do that in our house" For many parents, the toy is expensive enough that it warrants a rule (like the stove.)

lfowles 3y ago
Indeed, it's not just that I'm anxious the toy will break. It's that I'm anxious the behavior will continue and the replacement will be broken in short order and so on.
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  Obviously this depends on the age of the child and the cost of the replacement, which are outside the parent's control, but how quickly the toy is replaced can be a factor too. When a toddler drops a toy behind some furniture (on purpose, multiple times) you can leave it there for a week or two, and they will learn not to do that with things they care about.
- ddq 3y ago
  Why replace it? You're just teaching the child that breaking things has consequences for others but not for them.
  - lfowles 3y ago
    I've tried preaching philosophy to my toddler but he just doesn't seem to get it for some reason :) Some toys do get "broken" (but easily fixed so they reappear in a week or more), but out of sight means out of mind! He won't even remember it exists as soon as he gets thirsty and wants his drink instead, so effectively there are already zero consequences outside of a minute of anguish. I, on the other hand, do like the option of having toys to distract him while fixing dinner and some are way more effective than most.
    - evandale 3y ago
      I never understand this view, but admittedly I don't have children. I have a cat though. She's the first pet I've ever had in my life. I got lots of warnings from lots of people. Don't let her out or she'll cry all the time to go out. Keep her away from the door or she'll run out and you won't see her again. It sounded very difficult. However I didn't follow this advice and let my cat out in my backyard. And I found out that people were right and she does cry to go out all the time. At the start. So I ignored her. I didn't even tell her to be quiet. I let her whine and cry as much as she wanted. She was 100% fine and had everything she needed except the ability to go outside. She started to scratch the screen to voice her displeasure. I'm the boss and so she lost screen door privileges. She tried to negotiate but failed horribly because, again, I am the boss. She is a cat. The next weekend she got screen door privileges back and scratched the screen on day 2. She lost them again because I'm the boss and I don't want her to scratch my screen. When she got her screen privileges back again she never scratched the screen again. The door thing, same. She snuck out once. Then I started locking her in a safe room with everything she needed. It's still her room to this day and she can trash it as much as she wants, just like she could as a kitten. That's the only room she can do that and seems to understand that. She doesn't really come near the door if I'm leaving now, and if she's close she will not try sneaking out. She just turned two this past month, and while she was a nightmare as a kitten, she is a complete angel now. I'm not totally perfect and for example I can't keep her off my desk if it's in the sitting position. So I've learned to deal with it. If I don't want her on my desk I need to either keep her out of my office or use it standing. I can't seem to win this battle and I tried everything. I'll say that not buying a kid a new iPad seems like a much easier thing to do. I'm sure children are a lot different but the "I can't teach children philosophy" excuse sounds pretty weak. I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult.
      - IanCal 3y ago
        > I'm sure children are a lot different They are. Beating them into submission because you are the boss and they are just a child is not a long term solution. They are a lot more complex than cats. > I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult. Oh I can easily just lock my son in his room, make him dance to get fed, anything really. It'd be abuse and wouldn't result in him growing into a well rounded child and adult and he'd hate me, but I could force him to behave in basic ways like you're describing.
  - jjk166 3y ago
    At some point in time you made the determination that the value of the child possessing that item was greater than the cost to purchase said item. While them breaking the item may have changed the equation, generally it doesn't. In real life if you accidentally break something, you replace it and move on. If the child is old enough perhaps have the replacement come out of their allowance/have them do something in exchange, but if they are too young to take care of the issue themselves, they are too young to be responsible for taking care of the issue.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      well, i might make that determination for a laptop used for school, but surely not for a thing to play computer games or watch tv. if that breaks there is unlikely to be a new one for at least a year.
- borski 3y ago
  Make them work for it. If they break a toy, they have to work to get the replacement. Very early on, that might just mean doing their chores on time, or reading a book, or whatever - but the point is that when they break something, it takes work to replace.
Waterluvian 3y ago
It's all relative. For us, it's fine to watch my kid completely smash a lego set down the stairs because they're holding it like a waiter, it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week)
- chmod775 3y ago
  > it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week) On the other hand, if you don't buy them a new 3DS right away, there's a valuable lesson here somewhere.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    When we interrupted it we did have that discussion. “You play it so much and if it breaks there isn’t another one.” It seemed to register. But I think one of these days some sacrificial tech will really teach them this. And I wonder if that will make all the difference for respecting cell phones. I mentor a highschool robotics team and 90% of the kids phones have cracked screens.
    - mwint 3y ago
      Ya know… how crazy would it be to set up a charity-ish thing for buying kids replacement screens for phones? Just the part and tools, mind you. Not labor. They do the labor themselves. It’s really not that hard. (Even in the so-called unrepairable phones! I did an iPhone 12 battery last year. iFixit has those guides down to a science). Might work miracles at showing teens they can fix problems (even those that even their parents are scared of!), that repairing stuff isn’t that scary, and that $40ish can go quite a long way.
      - c22 3y ago
        Don't underestimate your skillset. I've repaired plenty of phones myself, but I've also been working with small tools and soldering electronics since I was a young child. My father, who is a perfectly capable adult human being with experience using many tools (but not many small detail-oriented tools) tried to fix the screen on his phone after I implied it might be pretty easy and he ended up having to buy a new phone.

by HWR_14 3y ago

lfowles 3y ago

Indeed, it's not just that I'm anxious the toy will break. It's that I'm anxious the behavior will continue and the replacement will be broken in short order and so on.

ghostpepper 3y ago
Obviously this depends on the age of the child and the cost of the replacement, which are outside the parent's control, but how quickly the toy is replaced can be a factor too. When a toddler drops a toy behind some furniture (on purpose, multiple times) you can leave it there for a week or two, and they will learn not to do that with things they care about.
ddq 3y ago
Why replace it? You're just teaching the child that breaking things has consequences for others but not for them.
- lfowles 3y ago
  I've tried preaching philosophy to my toddler but he just doesn't seem to get it for some reason :) Some toys do get "broken" (but easily fixed so they reappear in a week or more), but out of sight means out of mind! He won't even remember it exists as soon as he gets thirsty and wants his drink instead, so effectively there are already zero consequences outside of a minute of anguish. I, on the other hand, do like the option of having toys to distract him while fixing dinner and some are way more effective than most.
  - evandale 3y ago
    I never understand this view, but admittedly I don't have children. I have a cat though. She's the first pet I've ever had in my life. I got lots of warnings from lots of people. Don't let her out or she'll cry all the time to go out. Keep her away from the door or she'll run out and you won't see her again. It sounded very difficult. However I didn't follow this advice and let my cat out in my backyard. And I found out that people were right and she does cry to go out all the time. At the start. So I ignored her. I didn't even tell her to be quiet. I let her whine and cry as much as she wanted. She was 100% fine and had everything she needed except the ability to go outside. She started to scratch the screen to voice her displeasure. I'm the boss and so she lost screen door privileges. She tried to negotiate but failed horribly because, again, I am the boss. She is a cat. The next weekend she got screen door privileges back and scratched the screen on day 2. She lost them again because I'm the boss and I don't want her to scratch my screen. When she got her screen privileges back again she never scratched the screen again. The door thing, same. She snuck out once. Then I started locking her in a safe room with everything she needed. It's still her room to this day and she can trash it as much as she wants, just like she could as a kitten. That's the only room she can do that and seems to understand that. She doesn't really come near the door if I'm leaving now, and if she's close she will not try sneaking out. She just turned two this past month, and while she was a nightmare as a kitten, she is a complete angel now. I'm not totally perfect and for example I can't keep her off my desk if it's in the sitting position. So I've learned to deal with it. If I don't want her on my desk I need to either keep her out of my office or use it standing. I can't seem to win this battle and I tried everything. I'll say that not buying a kid a new iPad seems like a much easier thing to do. I'm sure children are a lot different but the "I can't teach children philosophy" excuse sounds pretty weak. I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult.
    - IanCal 3y ago
      > I'm sure children are a lot different They are. Beating them into submission because you are the boss and they are just a child is not a long term solution. They are a lot more complex than cats. > I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult. Oh I can easily just lock my son in his room, make him dance to get fed, anything really. It'd be abuse and wouldn't result in him growing into a well rounded child and adult and he'd hate me, but I could force him to behave in basic ways like you're describing.
- jjk166 3y ago
  At some point in time you made the determination that the value of the child possessing that item was greater than the cost to purchase said item. While them breaking the item may have changed the equation, generally it doesn't. In real life if you accidentally break something, you replace it and move on. If the child is old enough perhaps have the replacement come out of their allowance/have them do something in exchange, but if they are too young to take care of the issue themselves, they are too young to be responsible for taking care of the issue.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    well, i might make that determination for a laptop used for school, but surely not for a thing to play computer games or watch tv. if that breaks there is unlikely to be a new one for at least a year.
borski 3y ago
Make them work for it. If they break a toy, they have to work to get the replacement. Very early on, that might just mean doing their chores on time, or reading a book, or whatever - but the point is that when they break something, it takes work to replace.

Waterluvian 3y ago

It's all relative. For us, it's fine to watch my kid completely smash a lego set down the stairs because they're holding it like a waiter, it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week)

chmod775 3y ago
> it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week) On the other hand, if you don't buy them a new 3DS right away, there's a valuable lesson here somewhere.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  When we interrupted it we did have that discussion. “You play it so much and if it breaks there isn’t another one.” It seemed to register. But I think one of these days some sacrificial tech will really teach them this. And I wonder if that will make all the difference for respecting cell phones. I mentor a highschool robotics team and 90% of the kids phones have cracked screens.
  - mwint 3y ago
    Ya know… how crazy would it be to set up a charity-ish thing for buying kids replacement screens for phones? Just the part and tools, mind you. Not labor. They do the labor themselves. It’s really not that hard. (Even in the so-called unrepairable phones! I did an iPhone 12 battery last year. iFixit has those guides down to a science). Might work miracles at showing teens they can fix problems (even those that even their parents are scared of!), that repairing stuff isn’t that scary, and that $40ish can go quite a long way.
    - c22 3y ago
      Don't underestimate your skillset. I've repaired plenty of phones myself, but I've also been working with small tools and soldering electronics since I was a young child. My father, who is a perfectly capable adult human being with experience using many tools (but not many small detail-oriented tools) tried to fix the screen on his phone after I implied it might be pretty easy and he ended up having to buy a new phone.