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https://archive.is/D7u9l https://archive.is/D7u9l > In total, the TSA raised concerns about almost 49,000 Clear customers who were enrolled despite facial-reco

https://archive.is/D7u9l https://archive.is/D7u9l > In total, the TSA raised concerns about almost 49,000 Clear customers who were enrolled despite facial-recognition software flagging them as non-matches, and concluded its broader methods were inherently inferior to how the government checks travelers’ IDs, the people said. Enrollment photos seen by Bloomberg in some cases didn’t show a face at all and instead, for example, a shoulder and ceiling. This seems like it ought to be a huge story.

landemva 3y ago
Nah, as the people still have to go through screening no different than elderly or children (leave on shoes). Ramp workers go through separate doors with keypads- no screening. Even TSA doesn't screen themselves, as if a TSA government employee could not be bribed or coerced to take items around screening.
- __derek__ 3y ago
  There's no ID check after passing Clear, so this would be a way to avoid no-fly lists and other restrictions on travel.
  - landemva 3y ago
    ID is not required to be shown to TSA. I misplaced my ID a couple times and went through. The ID check was really to stop frequent flier award travel resale back when tickets were paper. It's still possible to use paper boarding pass today, though to my knowledge few people try to fly on tickets with someone else's name. It is still possible because showing ID, like the full body scan machines, is voluntary. TSA misleads the public about what is mandatory. Freedom to travel is a right in USA. If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. This is revenue management service for the airlines. For example if TSA misinformation, they claim full body imaging can be required yet they do not have that authority in practice. They can't even detain people. https://twitter.com/TSA/status/679447467922984961 https://twitter.com/TSA/status/679447467922984961
    - yellowapple 3y ago
      > Freedom to travel is a right in USA. That doesn't imply (let alone exply) a right to board a plane. This is the same logic used by self-proclaimed "sovereign citizens" to get out of everything from speeding tickets to California's agricultural checkpoints, and said logic falls apart for the exact same reason: you can exercise your freedom to travel on foot. > If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. Well yeah, obviously. The whole point of the checkpoint is to establish "you are who you say you are" and "you're authorized to be here", not just one or the other. > they claim full body imaging can be required yet they do not have that authority in practice. They can't even detain people. They clearly do and can, as plenty of people have learned the hard way. That, or you can walk (or drive, or bus, or train, or boat, or whatever) to your destination. Like, I'm with you that TSA is security theater and largely pointless, but you don't have to buy into sovereign-citizen-style misinterpretations of the law in order to arrive at that conclusion.
    - morpheuskafka 3y ago
      > If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. This is revenue management service for the airlines. The rationale for checking name match is there there is a separate part of the TSA process which identifies high-risk and prohibited individuals, and that works on name matching. That has already been completed based on the name on the boarding pass, so using another persons boarding pass/false name would bypass those checks. You could still bypass the airline's rules by entering with a ticket for another flight in your name (refundable or cheap) and using someone else's ticket at the gate. Couldn't check a bag, however. (although I inadvertently bypassed the checked bag-ID match at DCA last time)
  - lokar 3y ago
    My most recent trip they were no longer asking for ID, just the boarding pass. They already have everyone’s photos.
    - greedo 3y ago
      My flight this month was the opposite; they already have all the flight manifests, so they just asked for ID.
Hermitian909 3y ago
It shouldn't because the TSA does not serve a real purpose other than to be a jobs program. There has been a great deal of evidence over the years that the safety measures of the TSA are easily bypassed (google "TSA security theater" for a wealth of sources) and there's no evidence of increased safety since the department was created.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  This is such a common refrain ("it's security theater"), but I never hear any alternatives that I think would be slightly viable. To be clear, not really making an argument on TSA vs private security screeners that were in use before 9/11. But I am making the argument that those who like to shout "security theater" - what do you think is a better alternative? Do you honestly think it would ever work to just let flyers board planes with no screening of them or their luggage? When the inevitable jet loads of people are taken down by a terrorist bomb, the populous at large would be scrambling for more security, basically like they were after 9/11. Basically I'd like to know what your alternative proposal is.
  - Hermitian909 3y ago
    My proposal: More or less what we had pre 9/11. We solved the the vulnerability that 9/11 exposed in under a year - the inability to lock down the cabin to protect it from hostiles. Every commercial plane has newer doors installed now. This means the only really viable attack on aircraft is to blow them up mid-air which: 1. Is much less impactful 2. Still achievable by a determined actor today
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Just want to say I very much agree with this, and pretty much most of the other responses here. A lot of the times when I hear people talk about TSA "security theater" I hear them arguing that we really shouldn't have any screening at all, but it seems like the responses here are arguing specifically against: 1. Taking off your shoes 2. The liquids rule 3. Taking out your laptop. To which I totally agree (and since as a TSA Precheck member I never hit those issues anyway I don't notice them as much).
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
That paragraph is a bit misleading/unclear in my opinion, and is further explained lower in the article. Basically the Clear enrollment process is this: 1. First, the prospective enrollee needs to be matched to their ID. The normal way to do this is to take the person's picture, and then facial recognition software matches that face with their ID. However, since facial recognition isn't perfect, there is a "manual override" process where a Clear employee manually checks your ID and says "yes, this is you." That's why I don't think the sentence about "Enrollment photos seen by Bloomberg in some cases didn’t show a face at all and instead, for example, a shoulder and ceiling" is really that big a deal, because in those cases the photo was just ignored, and the person's ID was manually verified (which is what TSA agents do anyways). 2. Once your ID has been verified, then the Clear system scans your retina and your fingerprints. For any flights then that you want to board, Clear just does a retina scan to look up your ID. The problem is that if the original ID verification is wrong (e.g. the applicant had someone else's ID that just happens to look similar to them, think of the 20 year old trying to get into the bar with their older sibling's ID), it basically would allow the person to fly unlimited without their ID ever being checked again. That is, you only need to "sneak in" once. I think a better solution is to just more periodically revalidate IDs, and pick some percentage for random additional verification.

landemva 3y ago

Nah, as the people still have to go through screening no different than elderly or children (leave on shoes). Ramp workers go through separate doors with keypads- no screening. Even TSA doesn't screen themselves, as if a TSA government employee could not be bribed or coerced to take items around screening.

__derek__ 3y ago
There's no ID check after passing Clear, so this would be a way to avoid no-fly lists and other restrictions on travel.
- landemva 3y ago
  ID is not required to be shown to TSA. I misplaced my ID a couple times and went through. The ID check was really to stop frequent flier award travel resale back when tickets were paper. It's still possible to use paper boarding pass today, though to my knowledge few people try to fly on tickets with someone else's name. It is still possible because showing ID, like the full body scan machines, is voluntary. TSA misleads the public about what is mandatory. Freedom to travel is a right in USA. If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. This is revenue management service for the airlines. For example if TSA misinformation, they claim full body imaging can be required yet they do not have that authority in practice. They can't even detain people. https://twitter.com/TSA/status/679447467922984961 https://twitter.com/TSA/status/679447467922984961
  - yellowapple 3y ago
    > Freedom to travel is a right in USA. That doesn't imply (let alone exply) a right to board a plane. This is the same logic used by self-proclaimed "sovereign citizens" to get out of everything from speeding tickets to California's agricultural checkpoints, and said logic falls apart for the exact same reason: you can exercise your freedom to travel on foot. > If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. Well yeah, obviously. The whole point of the checkpoint is to establish "you are who you say you are" and "you're authorized to be here", not just one or the other. > they claim full body imaging can be required yet they do not have that authority in practice. They can't even detain people. They clearly do and can, as plenty of people have learned the hard way. That, or you can walk (or drive, or bus, or train, or boat, or whatever) to your destination. Like, I'm with you that TSA is security theater and largely pointless, but you don't have to buy into sovereign-citizen-style misinterpretations of the law in order to arrive at that conclusion.
  - morpheuskafka 3y ago
    > If you closely observe the TSA process, they check the ID with the name on boarding pass. This is revenue management service for the airlines. The rationale for checking name match is there there is a separate part of the TSA process which identifies high-risk and prohibited individuals, and that works on name matching. That has already been completed based on the name on the boarding pass, so using another persons boarding pass/false name would bypass those checks. You could still bypass the airline's rules by entering with a ticket for another flight in your name (refundable or cheap) and using someone else's ticket at the gate. Couldn't check a bag, however. (although I inadvertently bypassed the checked bag-ID match at DCA last time)
- lokar 3y ago
  My most recent trip they were no longer asking for ID, just the boarding pass. They already have everyone’s photos.
  - greedo 3y ago
    My flight this month was the opposite; they already have all the flight manifests, so they just asked for ID.

Hermitian909 3y ago

It shouldn't because the TSA does not serve a real purpose other than to be a jobs program. There has been a great deal of evidence over the years that the safety measures of the TSA are easily bypassed (google "TSA security theater" for a wealth of sources) and there's no evidence of increased safety since the department was created.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
This is such a common refrain ("it's security theater"), but I never hear any alternatives that I think would be slightly viable. To be clear, not really making an argument on TSA vs private security screeners that were in use before 9/11. But I am making the argument that those who like to shout "security theater" - what do you think is a better alternative? Do you honestly think it would ever work to just let flyers board planes with no screening of them or their luggage? When the inevitable jet loads of people are taken down by a terrorist bomb, the populous at large would be scrambling for more security, basically like they were after 9/11. Basically I'd like to know what your alternative proposal is.
- Hermitian909 3y ago
  My proposal: More or less what we had pre 9/11. We solved the the vulnerability that 9/11 exposed in under a year - the inability to lock down the cabin to protect it from hostiles. Every commercial plane has newer doors installed now. This means the only really viable attack on aircraft is to blow them up mid-air which: 1. Is much less impactful 2. Still achievable by a determined actor today
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Just want to say I very much agree with this, and pretty much most of the other responses here. A lot of the times when I hear people talk about TSA "security theater" I hear them arguing that we really shouldn't have any screening at all, but it seems like the responses here are arguing specifically against: 1. Taking off your shoes 2. The liquids rule 3. Taking out your laptop. To which I totally agree (and since as a TSA Precheck member I never hit those issues anyway I don't notice them as much).

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

That paragraph is a bit misleading/unclear in my opinion, and is further explained lower in the article. Basically the Clear enrollment process is this: 1. First, the prospective enrollee needs to be matched to their ID. The normal way to do this is to take the person's picture, and then facial recognition software matches that face with their ID. However, since facial recognition isn't perfect, there is a "manual override" process where a Clear employee manually checks your ID and says "yes, this is you." That's why I don't think the sentence about "Enrollment photos seen by Bloomberg in some cases didn’t show a face at all and instead, for example, a shoulder and ceiling" is really that big a deal, because in those cases the photo was just ignored, and the person's ID was manually verified (which is what TSA agents do anyways). 2. Once your ID has been verified, then the Clear system scans your retina and your fingerprints. For any flights then that you want to board, Clear just does a retina scan to look up your ID. The problem is that if the original ID verification is wrong (e.g. the applicant had someone else's ID that just happens to look similar to them, think of the 20 year old trying to get into the bar with their older sibling's ID), it basically would allow the person to fly unlimited without their ID ever being checked again. That is, you only need to "sneak in" once. I think a better solution is to just more periodically revalidate IDs, and pick some percentage for random additional verification.