7 ms·

The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." I've had this instinct whenever my kids ar

The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." I've had this instinct whenever my kids are on the jungle gym to say, "slow down!" "That's too high!" etc. but I usually catch myself and think, "if they fall is it a cry or a hospital visit?"

mrguyorama 3y ago
If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.
- uoaei 3y ago
  Witnessed this kind of thing today. Doting father of three boys on vacation. They're all ditzing around on busy sidewalks and the father barks "Control yourselves!" It occurred to me at that moment that this kind of hovering and scolding teaches children to externalize the responsibility of understanding their environment and their place within it. They will literally never learn the lessons this father wants to impart because he will always be there to act for them, until the children's brains lose the plasticity necessary to properly internalize those things. Perhaps they will always struggle with a psychological complex they can never fully understand. I know this because I had a doting mother who always defined my priorities for me. I learned to nearly fully externalize the maintenance of those priorities to her expectations (which were transitively pinned to those of the formal academic and "professional" systems). Because of this I'm currently going through something of an existential crisis -- I really don't know what I want to do. My career has been unfulfilling and trying to develop lasting hobbies and interests have not borne out the deep kinds of satisfaction others seem to be able to achieve. I still hold out hope I can find something that "gets the ball rolling" but learning patience while watching myself continue to orient myself toward goals that have definitive, quantifiable, socially-acceptable ends has been unsettling. I want to feel comfortable in my day-to-day, or at least confident that the processes I enact encourage the development of a more whole being.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Eh don't beat yourself up. I grew up with a lot of unstructured play time and I still don't feel like I have any real passions or a very satisfying career. I think that's pretty normal and a lot of what people talk about with regards to passions and interests is just bullshit or making conversation. A father or mother admonishing their kids to behave in public is not really anything new either.
    - uoaei 3y ago
      The instance was exemplary of a broader philosophy of thinking for children, rather than providing opportunities for them to learn to think for themselves. Such is the nature of parables.
  - watwut 3y ago
    The busy sidewalk thing is about innocent passersbys not having to deal with rowdy kids bumping into them or otherwise bothering them. And actually, kids that are told to watch it actually overall do take more care about that sort of stuff then if parents just let them do whatever.
    - SomewhatLikely 3y ago
      My young kids would be totally unaware if they were bumping into others, or causing them to stop abruptly, or otherwise interfering with others. Of course if those strangers yelled at them or provided some less harsh form of feedback it might register with them, but I find most people don't say anything so it's on me to let my kids know the effects they're behavior is having.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        > I find most people don't say anything so it's on me to let my kids know the effects they're behavior is having. People are terrified of saying anything because of the likely reaction of the kids' parents. The "it takes a village" mindset is gone. If someone's kid runs into you and you so much as say "excuse me" to them, you risk the parents getting in your face, holding up their cellphone camera, yelling "You don't talk to my kids. Go mind your damn business, Karen!" Not worth it--so bad behavior in public goes uncorrected. Even when kids aren't involved, people's reaction more and more to public criticism/correction is to get belligerent and tell you to mind your business.
- duckmysick 3y ago
  I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Let them play monopoly with allowance money? /s In all reality the most effective drug and vice talks I ever got were in High School. The first was from our school's substance counselor who was a former crack addict, and mother of one of our fellow students. She just told her story, and talked about all the horrible shit she saw, but never once told us drug war lies. The other was from my English teacher a few weeks before graduation. The gist of it was: "there's nothing I can say that will stop you from experimenting with drugs. A little bit of drugs probably won't ruin your lives, and might be fun, but pay attention to the people who don't moderate, and the people who do. The results speak for themselves." What it came down to was it was the two people that were honest with us who got heard. Some DARE cop lecturing us from a DEA handout about how marijuana addiction would ruin our lives didn't work, because kids aren't stupid, and they know BS when they hear it.
    - jdougan 3y ago
      "Drugs will make you feel awesome. Never trust _anything_ that makes you feel like that"
      - vacuity 3y ago
        Also, it's a whole lot more difficult getting out of addiction than getting in. If you just have a shovel you can dig deep, but climbing back up is a different story.
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      That sounds like the right way to do it. I would have welcomed that down to earth honesty at my school. We only got half the info we needed, the half they wanted us to hear, and at that point I lost trust in them.
ant6n 3y ago
>> The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." I also like to protect my shit from harm. Kids can be quite destructive in their play.
kryogen1c 3y ago
> The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." Another way to phrase this: Your job as a parent is to expose your children to the maximum amount of love that is healthy and the maximum amount of pain that is healthy. Too little or too much of either is possible and damaging.

mrguyorama 3y ago

If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.

uoaei 3y ago
Witnessed this kind of thing today. Doting father of three boys on vacation. They're all ditzing around on busy sidewalks and the father barks "Control yourselves!" It occurred to me at that moment that this kind of hovering and scolding teaches children to externalize the responsibility of understanding their environment and their place within it. They will literally never learn the lessons this father wants to impart because he will always be there to act for them, until the children's brains lose the plasticity necessary to properly internalize those things. Perhaps they will always struggle with a psychological complex they can never fully understand. I know this because I had a doting mother who always defined my priorities for me. I learned to nearly fully externalize the maintenance of those priorities to her expectations (which were transitively pinned to those of the formal academic and "professional" systems). Because of this I'm currently going through something of an existential crisis -- I really don't know what I want to do. My career has been unfulfilling and trying to develop lasting hobbies and interests have not borne out the deep kinds of satisfaction others seem to be able to achieve. I still hold out hope I can find something that "gets the ball rolling" but learning patience while watching myself continue to orient myself toward goals that have definitive, quantifiable, socially-acceptable ends has been unsettling. I want to feel comfortable in my day-to-day, or at least confident that the processes I enact encourage the development of a more whole being.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Eh don't beat yourself up. I grew up with a lot of unstructured play time and I still don't feel like I have any real passions or a very satisfying career. I think that's pretty normal and a lot of what people talk about with regards to passions and interests is just bullshit or making conversation. A father or mother admonishing their kids to behave in public is not really anything new either.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    The instance was exemplary of a broader philosophy of thinking for children, rather than providing opportunities for them to learn to think for themselves. Such is the nature of parables.
- watwut 3y ago
  The busy sidewalk thing is about innocent passersbys not having to deal with rowdy kids bumping into them or otherwise bothering them. And actually, kids that are told to watch it actually overall do take more care about that sort of stuff then if parents just let them do whatever.
  - SomewhatLikely 3y ago
    My young kids would be totally unaware if they were bumping into others, or causing them to stop abruptly, or otherwise interfering with others. Of course if those strangers yelled at them or provided some less harsh form of feedback it might register with them, but I find most people don't say anything so it's on me to let my kids know the effects they're behavior is having.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      > I find most people don't say anything so it's on me to let my kids know the effects they're behavior is having. People are terrified of saying anything because of the likely reaction of the kids' parents. The "it takes a village" mindset is gone. If someone's kid runs into you and you so much as say "excuse me" to them, you risk the parents getting in your face, holding up their cellphone camera, yelling "You don't talk to my kids. Go mind your damn business, Karen!" Not worth it--so bad behavior in public goes uncorrected. Even when kids aren't involved, people's reaction more and more to public criticism/correction is to get belligerent and tell you to mind your business.
duckmysick 3y ago
I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  Let them play monopoly with allowance money? /s In all reality the most effective drug and vice talks I ever got were in High School. The first was from our school's substance counselor who was a former crack addict, and mother of one of our fellow students. She just told her story, and talked about all the horrible shit she saw, but never once told us drug war lies. The other was from my English teacher a few weeks before graduation. The gist of it was: "there's nothing I can say that will stop you from experimenting with drugs. A little bit of drugs probably won't ruin your lives, and might be fun, but pay attention to the people who don't moderate, and the people who do. The results speak for themselves." What it came down to was it was the two people that were honest with us who got heard. Some DARE cop lecturing us from a DEA handout about how marijuana addiction would ruin our lives didn't work, because kids aren't stupid, and they know BS when they hear it.
  - jdougan 3y ago
    "Drugs will make you feel awesome. Never trust _anything_ that makes you feel like that"
    - vacuity 3y ago
      Also, it's a whole lot more difficult getting out of addiction than getting in. If you just have a shovel you can dig deep, but climbing back up is a different story.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    That sounds like the right way to do it. I would have welcomed that down to earth honesty at my school. We only got half the info we needed, the half they wanted us to hear, and at that point I lost trust in them.

ant6n 3y ago

>> The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." I also like to protect my shit from harm. Kids can be quite destructive in their play.

kryogen1c 3y ago

> The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." Another way to phrase this: Your job as a parent is to expose your children to the maximum amount of love that is healthy and the maximum amount of pain that is healthy. Too little or too much of either is possible and damaging.