5 ms·

Why are we letting Google get away with such nonsense? First(?) was the toast component, then removal of alerts, manifest v3, FLOC, now this. Sure, corporations

by butz 3y ago

Why are we letting Google get away with such nonsense? First(?) was the toast component, then removal of alerts, manifest v3, FLOC, now this. Sure, corporations are going to corporate away, so what are the options for us, users, and future users, who currently do not care, but might find current iteration of internet useful? I don't mind Google shutting all their products behind some wall, that requires using custom unmodifiable browser to access them, but do not spread it all over the place. We are still "enjoying" unsolvable recapthas everywhere.

shadowgovt 3y ago
> We are still "enjoying" unsolvable recapthas everywhere You know, I hardly ever see those things. They come up as part of a challenge-response when the server thinks your traffic is sus. I generally avoid them by staying logged in, not blocking cookies, and not using Tor or another route obfuscator.
- shiomiru 3y ago
  In other words, enabling precise tracking of your internet activities. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but I'm pretty sure it does many others (myself included). (BTW, the "server" is very often a reverse proxy hosted by Cloudflare that decrypts your connection to the actual server by design. In all likelihood, there's more data mining done there than we're made aware of :)
- butz 3y ago
  Yes, that's the main problem, that captchas are "invisible" to users logged into Google account. Not to mention some smart developers who are putting recaptchas on government websites, even when you authenticate in with your digital ID.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > They come up as part of a challenge-response when the server thinks your traffic is sus. I generally avoid them by staying logged in, not blocking cookies, and not using Tor or another route obfuscator. Which sounds great until you leave your cozy little corner of the first world and discover that millions of people are behind CGNAT.
martin8412 3y ago
I take strong issue with the CAPTCHAs.. You're essentially training Googles' image recognition engine for free.
- dtagames 3y ago
  No, you're not. A captcha already knows the correct answers. Otherwise, it wouldn't know if your selections are correct. Besides, Google doesn't need help in picking out pictures of motorcycles or buses or bridges.
  - nashashmi 3y ago
    It doesn’t know the answers are correct. I intentionally give it the wrong answers. Sometimes it realizes my answers don’t Match what is most common. So It doesn’t give me hard questions then. And doesn’t give me more than one prompt.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    > No, you're not. A captcha already knows the correct answers. Otherwise, it wouldn't know if your selections are correct. It doesn't need to know that your selections are "correct", only that they match responses given by most other users.
    - dtagames 3y ago
      That may be what makes it correct, but that's known in advance. My intent was to disabuse the notion that captchas are how Google trains for image recognition.
      - sieabahlpark 3y ago
        [dead]
  - icecream_so_gud 3y ago
    The original reCAPTCHA, with two words: It knew the answer to one of the words and didn't know the other. At one point some users were inserting purposefully wrong answers or slurs into the unknown word to mess with the data collection. I expect the idea is the same with images, if there are 4 buses I expect 2 it knows are correct and used as a sanity test, 1 it's pretty sure it's correct (from majority of users selecting it), and 1 has some heuristics that might be a bus but it is currently testing to see whether users believe is or not. Similarly with the 5 not a bus images.
Alifatisk 3y ago
Any link regarding the toast component?
- butz 3y ago
  Here's a link to intent to implement: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Gl7FIKM5IFw?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Gl7FI...
amf12 3y ago
Because we let Apple get away with it? https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-attestation/ https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-att...

by butz 3y ago

shadowgovt 3y ago

> We are still "enjoying" unsolvable recapthas everywhere You know, I hardly ever see those things. They come up as part of a challenge-response when the server thinks your traffic is sus. I generally avoid them by staying logged in, not blocking cookies, and not using Tor or another route obfuscator.

shiomiru 3y ago
In other words, enabling precise tracking of your internet activities. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but I'm pretty sure it does many others (myself included). (BTW, the "server" is very often a reverse proxy hosted by Cloudflare that decrypts your connection to the actual server by design. In all likelihood, there's more data mining done there than we're made aware of :)
butz 3y ago
Yes, that's the main problem, that captchas are "invisible" to users logged into Google account. Not to mention some smart developers who are putting recaptchas on government websites, even when you authenticate in with your digital ID.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> They come up as part of a challenge-response when the server thinks your traffic is sus. I generally avoid them by staying logged in, not blocking cookies, and not using Tor or another route obfuscator. Which sounds great until you leave your cozy little corner of the first world and discover that millions of people are behind CGNAT.

martin8412 3y ago

I take strong issue with the CAPTCHAs.. You're essentially training Googles' image recognition engine for free.

dtagames 3y ago
No, you're not. A captcha already knows the correct answers. Otherwise, it wouldn't know if your selections are correct. Besides, Google doesn't need help in picking out pictures of motorcycles or buses or bridges.
- nashashmi 3y ago
  It doesn’t know the answers are correct. I intentionally give it the wrong answers. Sometimes it realizes my answers don’t Match what is most common. So It doesn’t give me hard questions then. And doesn’t give me more than one prompt.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > No, you're not. A captcha already knows the correct answers. Otherwise, it wouldn't know if your selections are correct. It doesn't need to know that your selections are "correct", only that they match responses given by most other users.
  - dtagames 3y ago
    That may be what makes it correct, but that's known in advance. My intent was to disabuse the notion that captchas are how Google trains for image recognition.
    - sieabahlpark 3y ago
      [dead]
- icecream_so_gud 3y ago
  The original reCAPTCHA, with two words: It knew the answer to one of the words and didn't know the other. At one point some users were inserting purposefully wrong answers or slurs into the unknown word to mess with the data collection. I expect the idea is the same with images, if there are 4 buses I expect 2 it knows are correct and used as a sanity test, 1 it's pretty sure it's correct (from majority of users selecting it), and 1 has some heuristics that might be a bus but it is currently testing to see whether users believe is or not. Similarly with the 5 not a bus images.

Alifatisk 3y ago

Any link regarding the toast component?

butz 3y ago
Here's a link to intent to implement: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Gl7FIKM5IFw?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Gl7FI...

amf12 3y ago

Because we let Apple get away with it? https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-attestation/ https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-att...