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Before everyone begins chastising parents: >> He notes that this is a correlation, not proof of causation, although experiments with animals support the claim

Before everyone begins chastising parents: >> He notes that this is a correlation, not proof of causation, although experiments with animals support the claim that play deprivation causes anxiety and poor social development. I also wonder if "playing" in Minecraft, or Roblox supports this definition of play. Or even RPGs like DnD. It's interactive, and allows children to experiment. It's not a physical world, but I don't know if these parameters were explored.

jstarfish 3y ago
> I also wonder if "playing" in Minecraft, or Roblox supports this definition of play. Or even RPGs like DnD. It's interactive, and allows children to experiment. It's not a physical world, but I don't know if these parameters were explored. I don't think so, but that's my opinion. These virtual worlds have entirely different sets of rules that do not reflect those of reality or social norms. Kids do go through the same motions of testing boundaries, but they're testing boundaries that would get you punched in the face or jailed IRL-- but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. There's no consequence to scamming other kids in Roblox or destroying people's artwork in Minecraft. It's completely normal behavior to them. Tabletop D&D doesn't count; it's in-person, so if you're tossing around slurs or being conspicuously offensive, someone will correct your behavior. That's the extent of their socialization, and then they're unleashed into the real world expecting things to work the same way there.
- adamredwoods 3y ago
  >> but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. I'm not sure. From my limited observations of my N=1, and even from observing some Minecraft Youtube channels, there are definitely rules and consequences. But these are tested, changed, negotiated when new members (usually classmates) are brought in.
- deleted 3y ago
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- em-bee 3y ago
  Kids do go through the same motions of testing boundaries, but they're testing boundaries that would get you punched in the face or jailed IRL-- but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. There's no consequence to scamming other kids in Roblox or destroying people's artwork in Minecraft i'd like to disagree. first of all these actions don't have serious consequences because it's a game. destroying someones work in minecraft is no worse than destroying your lego house. that would not get you punched in the face either, nor would cheating your classmate out of their lunch money. there are also less consequences because of lack of supervision. i don't know about roblox, but the minetest servers my kids play on absolutely have rules against breaking others work and punish players by putting them in an in-world jail or blocking them from the server. in both cases the consequence is that the kids can't play. they have to learn how to interact with other players just as much.
  - defrost 3y ago
    In normal non digital real world playgrounds destroying other children's work and/or cheating them out of money is often a cause of fights starting and not infrequently leads to physical altercations and punches being thrown.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      ok, you are right, but it should not happen. i don't allow my kids to react that way. it is not a natural consequence, and not one they should learn to accept.
      - defrost 3y ago
        > it is not a natural consequence Cats, dogs, animals in the wild not not agree, try taking their food away and see what their natural reaction is to theft and|or interference. > and not one they should learn to accept. I agree that they should not learn to accept being punched for knocking down other peoples lego houses, I agree they should not learn to accept being punched for cheating others out of their lunch money. I woud suggest encouraging them to respect other peoples work and to not cheat others out of their money. I'm guessing your comment was poorly phrased and that we're in agreement here on the need to play nice and to first address poor behaviour with non violence.

jstarfish 3y ago

> I also wonder if "playing" in Minecraft, or Roblox supports this definition of play. Or even RPGs like DnD. It's interactive, and allows children to experiment. It's not a physical world, but I don't know if these parameters were explored. I don't think so, but that's my opinion. These virtual worlds have entirely different sets of rules that do not reflect those of reality or social norms. Kids do go through the same motions of testing boundaries, but they're testing boundaries that would get you punched in the face or jailed IRL-- but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. There's no consequence to scamming other kids in Roblox or destroying people's artwork in Minecraft. It's completely normal behavior to them. Tabletop D&D doesn't count; it's in-person, so if you're tossing around slurs or being conspicuously offensive, someone will correct your behavior. That's the extent of their socialization, and then they're unleashed into the real world expecting things to work the same way there.

adamredwoods 3y ago
>> but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. I'm not sure. From my limited observations of my N=1, and even from observing some Minecraft Youtube channels, there are definitely rules and consequences. But these are tested, changed, negotiated when new members (usually classmates) are brought in.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
em-bee 3y ago
Kids do go through the same motions of testing boundaries, but they're testing boundaries that would get you punched in the face or jailed IRL-- but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. There's no consequence to scamming other kids in Roblox or destroying people's artwork in Minecraft i'd like to disagree. first of all these actions don't have serious consequences because it's a game. destroying someones work in minecraft is no worse than destroying your lego house. that would not get you punched in the face either, nor would cheating your classmate out of their lunch money. there are also less consequences because of lack of supervision. i don't know about roblox, but the minetest servers my kids play on absolutely have rules against breaking others work and punish players by putting them in an in-world jail or blocking them from the server. in both cases the consequence is that the kids can't play. they have to learn how to interact with other players just as much.
- defrost 3y ago
  In normal non digital real world playgrounds destroying other children's work and/or cheating them out of money is often a cause of fights starting and not infrequently leads to physical altercations and punches being thrown.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    ok, you are right, but it should not happen. i don't allow my kids to react that way. it is not a natural consequence, and not one they should learn to accept.
    - defrost 3y ago
      > it is not a natural consequence Cats, dogs, animals in the wild not not agree, try taking their food away and see what their natural reaction is to theft and|or interference. > and not one they should learn to accept. I agree that they should not learn to accept being punched for knocking down other peoples lego houses, I agree they should not learn to accept being punched for cheating others out of their lunch money. I woud suggest encouraging them to respect other peoples work and to not cheat others out of their money. I'm guessing your comment was poorly phrased and that we're in agreement here on the need to play nice and to first address poor behaviour with non violence.