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Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing

Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing in order to maximize college admissions chances. It's madness. Don't play violin (even if you like it) because there are too many people doing that, you have to do something unique. Don't play basketball, it's too common and therefore too hard to stand out, you have to do something exotic. It's better to be average at something rare and expensive than pretty good at something ordinary. We ramp up the pressure younger than ever, tell people that their entire future hinges on their success and getting ahead of their peers right now, then we're surprised that people crack under the stress? (FWIW, the sports that seem to come up on top are rich, exclusive sports like fencing and polo, because they serve well as class signifiers in admissions)

atonse 3y ago
Yeah again the same social aspect is the challenge. We’ve resolved to tell our kids to forge their own path but they hear differently from friends, teachers, and other parents.
doubled112 3y ago
As a dad of two, this timeline sucks. Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo.
- fnimick 3y ago
  The "optimization" really is around signifying class. How much can you afford the exotic activities, how good is your network to get that unpaid internship or that volunteer opportunity, and of course you can't be in a financial situation where your child has to do menial work like retail. There was a discussion here a while back with a college admissions person where they confirmed that volunteer work is a bonus where actual work is not. It's not explicitly stated, but anyone who comes from a family where they _have_ to work is at a disadvantage.
- anon291 3y ago
  > Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo. Well ... no they don't and this is the problem. 'Regular' people for some reason feel the need to replicate what 'they' do. Why do you see 'them' do this and then think 'my children need what they are doing with theirs'. Look.. the data are unequivocal. Most people are unhappy. If you are not unhappy with your life, you are the outlier and the exception. Thus... don't try to do what others are doing, since most likely they're unhappy. Just enjoy yourself.
hooverd 3y ago
Epee is the common man's sport, foil is for fancy lads, and sabre is for people who want to be pirates.
Kon-Peki 3y ago
> Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing in order to maximize college admissions chances. Those people are dumb; ignore them. They're "fighting the last war", so to say. Seriously, an orchestra needs 30-40 violins per tuba. There has to be a lot of violin players, or there is no orchestra (the Harvard orchestra is short on violin players right now [1] - they certainly aren't going to be taking many more "unusual" instruments without more violins) The injury rates for young athletes keeps increasing (as in younger than 25-30). Plenty of research shows that specializing in a single sport at a young age is a strong contributor to this. Of course those "elite" coaches want your kid to give up everything else; when your kid burns out or get injured the coach just moves on to the next kid in line. Just opt out of this system, your kids will be fine. [1] https://www.harvardradcliffeorchestra.org/current-roster https://www.harvardradcliffeorchestra.org/current-roster
- floren 3y ago
  They're not trying to optimize so the kid can be a profession violinist -- god forbid, there's hardly any money there at all! No, the idea is to just do things which make the kid look different on a college application. That's it. Once the Harvard letter comes in, the cello can be sold, it's served its purpose.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    Yeah, I totally get that :) But you know, just about every single good university has an orchestra - lots of them have multiple (symphony, philharmonia, etc). There are way more kids playing music for their school than will ever be professional musicians. And there is a need for 2-3 times more violin players than cello players. If your kid enjoys playing violin and wants to play in college, that will count for a lot more than someone who plays a cello just so they can write it down on their application.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  Most school orchestras are not chamber orchestra, they separate band and the strings into separate classes with separate performances.

atonse 3y ago

Yeah again the same social aspect is the challenge. We’ve resolved to tell our kids to forge their own path but they hear differently from friends, teachers, and other parents.

doubled112 3y ago

As a dad of two, this timeline sucks. Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo.

fnimick 3y ago
The "optimization" really is around signifying class. How much can you afford the exotic activities, how good is your network to get that unpaid internship or that volunteer opportunity, and of course you can't be in a financial situation where your child has to do menial work like retail. There was a discussion here a while back with a college admissions person where they confirmed that volunteer work is a bonus where actual work is not. It's not explicitly stated, but anyone who comes from a family where they _have_ to work is at a disadvantage.
anon291 3y ago
> Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo. Well ... no they don't and this is the problem. 'Regular' people for some reason feel the need to replicate what 'they' do. Why do you see 'them' do this and then think 'my children need what they are doing with theirs'. Look.. the data are unequivocal. Most people are unhappy. If you are not unhappy with your life, you are the outlier and the exception. Thus... don't try to do what others are doing, since most likely they're unhappy. Just enjoy yourself.

hooverd 3y ago

Epee is the common man's sport, foil is for fancy lads, and sabre is for people who want to be pirates.

Kon-Peki 3y ago

> Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing in order to maximize college admissions chances. Those people are dumb; ignore them. They're "fighting the last war", so to say. Seriously, an orchestra needs 30-40 violins per tuba. There has to be a lot of violin players, or there is no orchestra (the Harvard orchestra is short on violin players right now [1] - they certainly aren't going to be taking many more "unusual" instruments without more violins) The injury rates for young athletes keeps increasing (as in younger than 25-30). Plenty of research shows that specializing in a single sport at a young age is a strong contributor to this. Of course those "elite" coaches want your kid to give up everything else; when your kid burns out or get injured the coach just moves on to the next kid in line. Just opt out of this system, your kids will be fine. [1] https://www.harvardradcliffeorchestra.org/current-roster https://www.harvardradcliffeorchestra.org/current-roster

floren 3y ago
They're not trying to optimize so the kid can be a profession violinist -- god forbid, there's hardly any money there at all! No, the idea is to just do things which make the kid look different on a college application. That's it. Once the Harvard letter comes in, the cello can be sold, it's served its purpose.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  Yeah, I totally get that :) But you know, just about every single good university has an orchestra - lots of them have multiple (symphony, philharmonia, etc). There are way more kids playing music for their school than will ever be professional musicians. And there is a need for 2-3 times more violin players than cello players. If your kid enjoys playing violin and wants to play in college, that will count for a lot more than someone who plays a cello just so they can write it down on their application.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
Most school orchestras are not chamber orchestra, they separate band and the strings into separate classes with separate performances.