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> Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. Does that honestly sound fair to you? I'm not putting words into your mouth. Plea

by asow92 3y ago

> Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. Does that honestly sound fair to you? I'm not putting words into your mouth. Please respect my agency and I'll continue to respect yours in kind. > Please, by all means, show me examples. Not anecdotes. Not opinion. Hard examples. Aren't examples also anecdotes? https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should-market-to-low-income-communities/ https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should... > Take for example, Headspace, makers of the popular meditation app by the same name. The company created an exclusive discount to help teachers who might not be able to afford the app use it to manage their stress.

mynameisvlad 3y ago
So your example is… someone advertising their app so a teacher can spend slightly less money? That’s your choice for targeted ads being used for good? Seriously? That’s a long way down from those theoretical local non-profits. And if that’s the best you’ve got, then I don’t know how anyone could say anything but fuck no to invading their privacy for a shiny discount to an app they likely don’t even need.
- asow92 3y ago
  You asked for an example and I gave you one, but it's not good enough for you. Where shall the goalpost move next? If it feels like it's an example of low consequence that's because it is: what we're arguing about is pretty trivial to most folks. And that might not make sense, but here's why: most folks aren't on hacker news nor care so deeply about such things.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    The goalpost is exactly where it has always been, your example is just a horrible way to try and show that targeted advertising can be used for good. How does it "better their lives"? It's not like Headspace is giving the app away for free; teachers still have to pay for it. In the single example you did provide, the motivation behind the targeting is still strictly to extract money from people. It may be to extract slightly less money from a specific group, but it's not like Headspace is doing the targeting out of the goodness of their hearts; they are doing it because they think they will get more profits from the higher number of sales even at a discount. Using the most capitalistic example is certainly a choice you can make, but it's not one that is going to convince most people of your cause. If you want to convince people that targeted ads can be used for good, then actually show that it can be used for good instead of talking about theoretical and hypothetical non-profits and providing the weakest possible example when pushed for reality.
    - asow92 3y ago
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbusiness/2021/03/06/how-nonprofits-can-use-social-media-to-increase-donations-and-boost-visibility/?sh=b0174812bb7e https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbusiness/2021/03/06/how-nonp... https://www.constantcontact.com/blog/facebook-ads-for-nonprofits/ https://www.constantcontact.com/blog/facebook-ads-for-nonpro... Non-profits and for profit companies alike can use targeted ads to mutually benefit those they are targeting. Obviously for profit companies exist to make money. Do you think that true altruism is a real thing? Everybody has a motive and that's the game we call life. As far as my real-life local non-profit example: my local PP chapter reached out to my local side business IG account to share posts of their social media to widen their audience. Wouldn't it be great if they could better target people in their target demographic more easily / affordably?
      - foobiekr 3y ago
        There are many nice things we can’t have because they are exploited by bad actors. There is a nearly infinite amount of evidence that targeted ads go hand-in-hand with abusive, anti-social practices. So I am sorry that you and your innocent nonprofits are being impacted by the massive, exploitative, evil machine that inherently builds around grinding away privacy, but it’s an unfortunate side effect of how many ethicless assholes there are.
        asow92 3y ago
        This guy asked for examples for my position and I gave them. All I can do is stand up for my position despite it being unpopular.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

by asow92 3y ago

mynameisvlad 3y ago

So your example is… someone advertising their app so a teacher can spend slightly less money? That’s your choice for targeted ads being used for good? Seriously? That’s a long way down from those theoretical local non-profits. And if that’s the best you’ve got, then I don’t know how anyone could say anything but fuck no to invading their privacy for a shiny discount to an app they likely don’t even need.

asow92 3y ago
You asked for an example and I gave you one, but it's not good enough for you. Where shall the goalpost move next? If it feels like it's an example of low consequence that's because it is: what we're arguing about is pretty trivial to most folks. And that might not make sense, but here's why: most folks aren't on hacker news nor care so deeply about such things.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  The goalpost is exactly where it has always been, your example is just a horrible way to try and show that targeted advertising can be used for good. How does it "better their lives"? It's not like Headspace is giving the app away for free; teachers still have to pay for it. In the single example you did provide, the motivation behind the targeting is still strictly to extract money from people. It may be to extract slightly less money from a specific group, but it's not like Headspace is doing the targeting out of the goodness of their hearts; they are doing it because they think they will get more profits from the higher number of sales even at a discount. Using the most capitalistic example is certainly a choice you can make, but it's not one that is going to convince most people of your cause. If you want to convince people that targeted ads can be used for good, then actually show that it can be used for good instead of talking about theoretical and hypothetical non-profits and providing the weakest possible example when pushed for reality.
  - asow92 3y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbusiness/2021/03/06/how-nonprofits-can-use-social-media-to-increase-donations-and-boost-visibility/?sh=b0174812bb7e https://www.forbes.com/sites/allbusiness/2021/03/06/how-nonp... https://www.constantcontact.com/blog/facebook-ads-for-nonprofits/ https://www.constantcontact.com/blog/facebook-ads-for-nonpro... Non-profits and for profit companies alike can use targeted ads to mutually benefit those they are targeting. Obviously for profit companies exist to make money. Do you think that true altruism is a real thing? Everybody has a motive and that's the game we call life. As far as my real-life local non-profit example: my local PP chapter reached out to my local side business IG account to share posts of their social media to widen their audience. Wouldn't it be great if they could better target people in their target demographic more easily / affordably?
    - foobiekr 3y ago
      There are many nice things we can’t have because they are exploited by bad actors. There is a nearly infinite amount of evidence that targeted ads go hand-in-hand with abusive, anti-social practices. So I am sorry that you and your innocent nonprofits are being impacted by the massive, exploitative, evil machine that inherently builds around grinding away privacy, but it’s an unfortunate side effect of how many ethicless assholes there are.
      - asow92 3y ago
        This guy asked for examples for my position and I gave them. All I can do is stand up for my position despite it being unpopular.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]