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This is hilarious, because it misses one of the core issues with wicked problems. Wicked problems are wicked because they are nearly impossible to theorize abou

by bena 3y ago

This is hilarious, because it misses one of the core issues with wicked problems. Wicked problems are wicked because they are nearly impossible to theorize about. You cannot know if a solution is viable unless you actually implement the solution. So you won't know if you're right or wrong until it is too late. You can collect all the data, interview all the people, see all the things, and still do the wrong thing. And you won't know it until you've tried. Sometimes you won't know if you've failed or not for years afterwards. There are no good ways to approach wicked problems in general, because each has its own complications. So while it may feel good to feel like you've done something here, I question whether anything was actually done. Because there is no way to know if any of these proposed solutions are actually viable or effective.

OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
> I question whether anything was actually done It sold services. There's a big market for that.
mistermann 3y ago
> You cannot know if a solution is viable unless you actually implement the solution. So you won't know if you're right or wrong until it is too late. It is certainly possible to sometimes know when a given idea cannot work. > There are no good ways to approach wicked problems in general, because each has its own complications. You are guessing, necessarily. That people are generally speaking not able to stop guessing, and realizing that they are guessing, is a lot bigger of a headwind imho.
mrkeen 3y ago
Did you read the article? It didn't miss any of that. That was the point of the article. >> Cristobal and I wondered if we could combine the tenets of Lean (get out of the building, build MVPs, run experiments, move with speed and urgency) with the expanded toolset developed by researchers who work on Wicked problems and Systems’ Thinking. >> Our goal was to see if we could get students to stop admiring problems and work rapidly on solving them.
- bena 3y ago
  Yes, but none of the solutions will be implemented. It's ultimately navel gazing. And one of the qualities of a wicked problem is that you can't really run experiments. Finding out if (for example) a new method of teaching during early education will result in more capable college students has no experiment that you can run that doesn't involve just doing the thing. And while you can implement with "speed and urgency", the fact that this is an issue that affects people after many years means after you've implemented it, there is no more speed or urgency to be had. And you also don't get to know if you've done anything until the end. And also with all of the other confounding factors that go into the growth and development of human beings, you can't even know if what you did was the thing that made the difference. They're hard. Full stop. We need to approach them with caution and full realization that we are essentially replacing our wings mid-flight. You don't get to be wrong without things going very wrong. So whatever you do, you have to try and do it in a way that mitigates as much possible harm as you can perceive. And even if they did come up with a solution to one of their problems, so what. Because another quality of wicked problems is that they're fairly unique. What works for one problem is not guaranteed to work for any other problem. So even if these techniques solved even one of these problems, it does not help. We don't need tools to solve wicked-class problems, that's about as likely as perpetual motion, we need tools to identify them.
tuatoru 3y ago
The whole thing comes from a paternalistic mindset of doing things to people, rather than enabling them to see their situation, perhaps differently than before. In wicked problems, if you, the outsider, are doing anything other than facilitating or acting as a go-between, you're part of the problem.

by bena 3y ago

OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago

> I question whether anything was actually done It sold services. There's a big market for that.

mistermann 3y ago

> You cannot know if a solution is viable unless you actually implement the solution. So you won't know if you're right or wrong until it is too late. It is certainly possible to sometimes know when a given idea cannot work. > There are no good ways to approach wicked problems in general, because each has its own complications. You are guessing, necessarily. That people are generally speaking not able to stop guessing, and realizing that they are guessing, is a lot bigger of a headwind imho.

mrkeen 3y ago

Did you read the article? It didn't miss any of that. That was the point of the article. >> Cristobal and I wondered if we could combine the tenets of Lean (get out of the building, build MVPs, run experiments, move with speed and urgency) with the expanded toolset developed by researchers who work on Wicked problems and Systems’ Thinking. >> Our goal was to see if we could get students to stop admiring problems and work rapidly on solving them.

bena 3y ago
Yes, but none of the solutions will be implemented. It's ultimately navel gazing. And one of the qualities of a wicked problem is that you can't really run experiments. Finding out if (for example) a new method of teaching during early education will result in more capable college students has no experiment that you can run that doesn't involve just doing the thing. And while you can implement with "speed and urgency", the fact that this is an issue that affects people after many years means after you've implemented it, there is no more speed or urgency to be had. And you also don't get to know if you've done anything until the end. And also with all of the other confounding factors that go into the growth and development of human beings, you can't even know if what you did was the thing that made the difference. They're hard. Full stop. We need to approach them with caution and full realization that we are essentially replacing our wings mid-flight. You don't get to be wrong without things going very wrong. So whatever you do, you have to try and do it in a way that mitigates as much possible harm as you can perceive. And even if they did come up with a solution to one of their problems, so what. Because another quality of wicked problems is that they're fairly unique. What works for one problem is not guaranteed to work for any other problem. So even if these techniques solved even one of these problems, it does not help. We don't need tools to solve wicked-class problems, that's about as likely as perpetual motion, we need tools to identify them.

tuatoru 3y ago

The whole thing comes from a paternalistic mindset of doing things to people, rather than enabling them to see their situation, perhaps differently than before. In wicked problems, if you, the outsider, are doing anything other than facilitating or acting as a go-between, you're part of the problem.