4 ms·

Cecil Kelley criticality accident

73 points by areoform 3y ago

ambicapter 3y ago
> During a deposition for the case, Lushbaugh, when asked who gave him the authority to take eight pounds (3.6 kilograms) of organs and tissue from Kelley's body, said, "God gave me permission." Yikes.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I think the term here to describe him would be 'megalomaniac' ?
  - crabbone 3y ago
    These things are very rarely thought of by the defendants themselves, especially if that's a doctor employed by an important and a wealthy lab. Realistically, you need to attribute this response to his (well, his employer's) lawyer. And that was probably chosen in such a way to impede or to confuse the prosecution. I'd doubt the doctor in question made the call himself about the organ harvesting -- most likely his employer was well aware of the procedure. We will most likely never know what the doctor himself thought about doing it.
    - CSSer 3y ago
      This man (Clarence Lushbaugh) was also involved in a controversial research program where they exposed human test subjects to varying degrees of radiation by having them sit in test chambers disguised as waiting rooms. Later, he was promoted. Of the controversy he remarked, "Only God can retire me," according to Wikipedia[0]. I've verified the citation as present on page 44 of the Sept./Oct. 1981 of Mother Jones towards the bottom of the first column[1]. This was published 15 years before the date of the trial in the current discussion. I'm sensing a pattern. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Lushbaugh#:~:text=Only%20God%20can%20retire%20me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Lushbaugh#:~:text=Onl... [1]: https://books.google.com/books?id=aeYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA31&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q=only%20God%20can%20retire%20me.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=aeYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA31&pg=P...
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  By which I wonder if he meant himself...
- tiffanyg 3y ago
  Heh, yes - that seems ... an unwise way of phrasing it. Particularly in a deposition during a lawsuit (simply with respect to the human dynamic all-around, not even the issues of law). Interestingly, citation of "God" seems something of a theme for Lushbaugh (caveat: based on the little I just read). He apparently is quoted as having said that God was the only one who could retire him. So, it seems he may, in fact, not have had a "God complex" (in a simple, intentional, self-will-based manner), but, actually been of a religious (/ spiritual / philosophical) persuasion in which there is an honest belief in the morality / ethics of certain actions being, say, in "God's purview" or etc. Like much involving hierarchies and authority, this in no way absolves him of responsibility, NOR does it mean his actions were "right" etc. (much as "simply following orders" is not considered a defense in recent history [see / search for Nuremberg Principle IV, for example]). But, I do think there is a bit of nuance here - he may not be so arrogant as such a statement might suggest. Though, "yikes" is appropriate for making such a statement, regardless of its underlying basis.

73 points by areoform 3y ago

> During a deposition for the case, Lushbaugh, when asked who gave him the authority to take eight pounds (3.6 kilograms) of organs and tissue from Kelley's body, said, "God gave me permission." Yikes.

sidewndr46 3y ago
I think the term here to describe him would be 'megalomaniac' ?
- crabbone 3y ago
  These things are very rarely thought of by the defendants themselves, especially if that's a doctor employed by an important and a wealthy lab. Realistically, you need to attribute this response to his (well, his employer's) lawyer. And that was probably chosen in such a way to impede or to confuse the prosecution. I'd doubt the doctor in question made the call himself about the organ harvesting -- most likely his employer was well aware of the procedure. We will most likely never know what the doctor himself thought about doing it.
  - CSSer 3y ago
    This man (Clarence Lushbaugh) was also involved in a controversial research program where they exposed human test subjects to varying degrees of radiation by having them sit in test chambers disguised as waiting rooms. Later, he was promoted. Of the controversy he remarked, "Only God can retire me," according to Wikipedia[0]. I've verified the citation as present on page 44 of the Sept./Oct. 1981 of Mother Jones towards the bottom of the first column[1]. This was published 15 years before the date of the trial in the current discussion. I'm sensing a pattern. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Lushbaugh#:~:text=Only%20God%20can%20retire%20me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Lushbaugh#:~:text=Onl... [1]: https://books.google.com/books?id=aeYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA31&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q=only%20God%20can%20retire%20me.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=aeYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA31&pg=P...
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
By which I wonder if he meant himself...
tiffanyg 3y ago
Heh, yes - that seems ... an unwise way of phrasing it. Particularly in a deposition during a lawsuit (simply with respect to the human dynamic all-around, not even the issues of law). Interestingly, citation of "God" seems something of a theme for Lushbaugh (caveat: based on the little I just read). He apparently is quoted as having said that God was the only one who could retire him. So, it seems he may, in fact, not have had a "God complex" (in a simple, intentional, self-will-based manner), but, actually been of a religious (/ spiritual / philosophical) persuasion in which there is an honest belief in the morality / ethics of certain actions being, say, in "God's purview" or etc. Like much involving hierarchies and authority, this in no way absolves him of responsibility, NOR does it mean his actions were "right" etc. (much as "simply following orders" is not considered a defense in recent history [see / search for Nuremberg Principle IV, for example]). But, I do think there is a bit of nuance here - he may not be so arrogant as such a statement might suggest. Though, "yikes" is appropriate for making such a statement, regardless of its underlying basis.