4 ms·

We do disagree. But one of us is describing, and one of us is depending, and that skews things a little, doesn't it? Upton Sinclair had a line about this. What

We do disagree. But one of us is describing, and one of us is depending, and that skews things a little, doesn't it? Upton Sinclair had a line about this. What value, in a sane system, does selling advertising that targets people who "can't even afford decent housing or food" actually do? How are the goods you are selling--human attention--actually turning into revenue for the advertiser if the user has no money to act on the advertising? Or is it just one more iteration on a mutual deception that exists to create a predicate for "any of these mobile apps are worth creating in the first place"? You're building a bigger house of cards with every post.

asow92 3y ago
Poor people might be better served with targeted ads to help them find lower cost goods to save money, access helpful services they otherwise wouldn't know about, and seek out support groups/clubs/organizations. Not everything in this life is evil ya know.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  They might but we both know they won’t be. They’ll be targeted with ads which exploit the fact that they are in an extremely vulnerable state. In fact, the more desperate, the more willing they’d be to click on an ad, which gives a perverse incentive to advertisers and developers to worsen their financial position. But please, show me examples of these good targeted ads because while in theory they could exist, something tells me they very much don’t.
  - asow92 3y ago
    > we both know they won’t be. Not true, you don't speak for what I know. > show me examples of these good targeted ads because while in theory they could exist, something tells me they very much don’t. The non-profits in my area (which is very low income) would very much like to target my local community better/cheaper.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      > Not true, you don't speak for what I know. Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. > The non-profits in my area (which is very low income) would very much like to target my local community better/cheaper. They certainly would, but have they? I asked for a very simple and specific thing. Examples of targeted ads right now that are specifically targeted towards low-income folks and which are doing it to better their lives. Please, by all means, show me examples. Not anecdotes. Not opinion. Hard examples. Until then, it's a pipe dream used to justify your company's desire to further invade people's privacy.
      - asow92 3y ago
        > Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. Does that honestly sound fair to you? I'm not putting words into your mouth. Please respect my agency and I'll continue to respect yours in kind. > Please, by all means, show me examples. Not anecdotes. Not opinion. Hard examples. Aren't examples also anecdotes? https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should-market-to-low-income-communities/ https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should... > Take for example, Headspace, makers of the popular meditation app by the same name. The company created an exclusive discount to help teachers who might not be able to afford the app use it to manage their stress.
        mynameisvlad 3y ago
        So your example is… someone advertising their app so a teacher can spend slightly less money? That’s your choice for targeted ads being used for good? Seriously? That’s a long way down from those theoretical local non-profits. And if that’s the best you’ve got, then I don’t know how anyone could say anything but fuck no to invading their privacy for a shiny discount to an app they likely don’t even need.
        asow92 3y ago
        You asked for an example and I gave you one, but it's not good enough for you. Where shall the goalpost move next? If it feels like it's an example of low consequence that's because it is: what we're arguing about is pretty trivial to most folks. And that might not make sense, but here's why: most folks aren't on hacker news nor care so deeply about such things.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    We all know that the average mobile ad is for games targeted at whales who will buy loot boxes and gems.
    - asow92 3y ago
      If only they could be targeted to be more relevant to you :thinking_face:
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Well since I personally refuse to use any apps that I can’t pay to disable ads and I use an ad blocker, that might be kind of difficult…
        asow92 3y ago
        That's kind of my issue: In journalism it's hard for us to make money because we have a low amount of users who are wiling to pay to disable ads (or remove paywalls for that matter) while at the same time ads don't pay us enough despite high user engagement, so what do we do?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Choose another profession? The market doesn’t value journalism. I’m not saying that it isn’t important. But the market has spoken.
- bdavbdav 3y ago
  Have you seen the average mobile ad? Targeted ads are driving you to buy that thing you’re thinking about anyway.

asow92 3y ago

Poor people might be better served with targeted ads to help them find lower cost goods to save money, access helpful services they otherwise wouldn't know about, and seek out support groups/clubs/organizations. Not everything in this life is evil ya know.

mynameisvlad 3y ago
They might but we both know they won’t be. They’ll be targeted with ads which exploit the fact that they are in an extremely vulnerable state. In fact, the more desperate, the more willing they’d be to click on an ad, which gives a perverse incentive to advertisers and developers to worsen their financial position. But please, show me examples of these good targeted ads because while in theory they could exist, something tells me they very much don’t.
- asow92 3y ago
  > we both know they won’t be. Not true, you don't speak for what I know. > show me examples of these good targeted ads because while in theory they could exist, something tells me they very much don’t. The non-profits in my area (which is very low income) would very much like to target my local community better/cheaper.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    > Not true, you don't speak for what I know. Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. > The non-profits in my area (which is very low income) would very much like to target my local community better/cheaper. They certainly would, but have they? I asked for a very simple and specific thing. Examples of targeted ads right now that are specifically targeted towards low-income folks and which are doing it to better their lives. Please, by all means, show me examples. Not anecdotes. Not opinion. Hard examples. Until then, it's a pipe dream used to justify your company's desire to further invade people's privacy.
    - asow92 3y ago
      > Just because you refuse to say it publicly does not mean you don't know it. Does that honestly sound fair to you? I'm not putting words into your mouth. Please respect my agency and I'll continue to respect yours in kind. > Please, by all means, show me examples. Not anecdotes. Not opinion. Hard examples. Aren't examples also anecdotes? https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should-market-to-low-income-communities/ https://www.sheerid.com/business/blog/why-and-how-you-should... > Take for example, Headspace, makers of the popular meditation app by the same name. The company created an exclusive discount to help teachers who might not be able to afford the app use it to manage their stress.
      - mynameisvlad 3y ago
        So your example is… someone advertising their app so a teacher can spend slightly less money? That’s your choice for targeted ads being used for good? Seriously? That’s a long way down from those theoretical local non-profits. And if that’s the best you’ve got, then I don’t know how anyone could say anything but fuck no to invading their privacy for a shiny discount to an app they likely don’t even need.
        asow92 3y ago
        You asked for an example and I gave you one, but it's not good enough for you. Where shall the goalpost move next? If it feels like it's an example of low consequence that's because it is: what we're arguing about is pretty trivial to most folks. And that might not make sense, but here's why: most folks aren't on hacker news nor care so deeply about such things.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  We all know that the average mobile ad is for games targeted at whales who will buy loot boxes and gems.
  - asow92 3y ago
    If only they could be targeted to be more relevant to you :thinking_face:
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Well since I personally refuse to use any apps that I can’t pay to disable ads and I use an ad blocker, that might be kind of difficult…
      - asow92 3y ago
        That's kind of my issue: In journalism it's hard for us to make money because we have a low amount of users who are wiling to pay to disable ads (or remove paywalls for that matter) while at the same time ads don't pay us enough despite high user engagement, so what do we do?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Choose another profession? The market doesn’t value journalism. I’m not saying that it isn’t important. But the market has spoken.
bdavbdav 3y ago
Have you seen the average mobile ad? Targeted ads are driving you to buy that thing you’re thinking about anyway.