18 ms·

As someone on the other side, with open positions we're hiring for: There are probably fewer job openings than there were, but I don't think my company or anyo

by noodle 3y ago

As someone on the other side, with open positions we're hiring for: There are probably fewer job openings than there were, but I don't think my company or anyone in my network have changed HOW they're hiring, but we have definitely noticed a huge uptick in volume of applications. Earlier in the year, we were getting almost nothing. Now we're getting hundreds of resumes a week for each open position, and the bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD. There's just a lot more to wade through from an HR and hiring perspective now, orders of magnitude more. It takes way more time/resources and is way more draining for the people involved. I think my suggestion is, do what you can to stand out. Don't go overboard or anything, but if you're submitting your resume to an HR software or something, maybe try and find someone in the hiring chain on LinkedIn and email them directly either with your resume or just asking how its like to work there before you submit. Something like this.

ransom1538 3y ago
I remember a report from facebook hiring, when they broke down how each person applied. It was something weird like %0.01 were hired by "walk in". Some person literally walked into FB headquarters and left with a job. I will say, if you walk into an office, you will NOT get ignored.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
  Of course you won't get ignored, you'll get escorted out by security. The likelihood of a hiring manager being in the office nowadays is also very low.
- dustincoates 3y ago
  I actually got my first job out of college this way. I was trying to get a job in something completely unrelated to what I studied, so I was doing whatever I could think of to get noticed. I still can't believe it worked, but it set me on a good path, at least.
  - galangalalgol 3y ago
    I wonder what would happen if you somehow managed to find what coffee shop the hiring manager was working from that day and sat down next to them striking up a conversation. Obviously most of the ways you could do that are super creepy if not illegal, but then so is most of what FB and crew make.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      Your comment reminds me of an awkward story: I worked at a company once where we were having trouble with Apple's AppStore review. The app was delisted and we were losing money daily. It was so bad the CEO came in and led a meeting to brainstorm what to do--all wild suggestions welcome, and worker-bee me got to be a fly on the wall. One of the VP-level execs mentioned in this meeting that he happened to know some breakfast or coffee shop where Tim Cook can sometimes be found before work. Well, the CEO loved this, and for a brief moment, "Physically accost Tim Cook in Palo Alto" was one of the leading candidates to solve our AppStore problem.
      - cutemonster 3y ago
        What did you do instead? Apparently you came up with something even better
        ryandrake 3y ago
        Amazingly, what worked was: Actually read and follow the AppStore guidelines, rather than complain about how unfair the review was.
        cutemonster 3y ago
        Ok, interesting :-)
    - metalforever 3y ago
      We have an employee on my team that got a job this way a few years back. She is still with us and does good work.
- Dirak 3y ago
  This type of hiring is most likely reserved for Yann LeCun caliber talent. If you walk in to FB HQ without an appointment, 1) they wouldn’t let you in, and 2) you’d probably just make it awkward for the security guard
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Yeah, I agree. That "walk-in" was probably Yann having lunch with another intellectually famous friend. Someone recognized them and took the chance to interview them.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  I know this sounds 'old fashioned' but you really want to work for a particular company, walking in has had a surprising success rate for me over the years. Some are absolute sticks in the mud about requiring the candidate to apply online, but in many, you can at least chat with someone in hr or a hiring manager about the sorts of positions they have available and what skills they need. This all but guarantees your resume will be looked at by an actual human.
- eulers_secret 3y ago
  I got my first job by walking in. It was at a medical center, and I just asked the receptionist for the IT department. Got routed all over the med center. When I got to IT I found the telecom manager was way over worked and needed help, but had no time to search. So he interviewed and hired me on the spot. This was in 2007. I wouldn’t do that today, you won’t get past security at most places. It does happen, though.
  - op00to 3y ago
    That’s awesome! Nice initiative! I got my first real tech job in a similar way. I was moving into a dorm at a state university (1999 or so) and the network was not working. No one around, so I went into the unlocked networking closet, found the IP for my floors switch, realized the ports were all disabled, got them enabled and passed out static IP information by the time the dorm networking manager got there. Was also hired on the spot!
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  As others mentioned this will not work at FB. Their lobby is 100% security and always busy as it is a massive campus. The only way a FB employee is even there is if they are waiting to escort someone in for a scheduled meeting. Getting into the campus would not be useful either. Its like a little college town. Offices require badging in. This might work at smaller companies however.
bsima 3y ago
> Now we're getting hundreds of resumes a week for each open position, and the bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD. What percentage of these resumes do you think are generated by GPT?
- noodle 3y ago
  Honestly, I don't know. I don't see enough of the "not close, easy rejection" type resumes, I see things after they've been filtered. But I'll see if I can get an answer to that question.
- troyvit 3y ago
  The last time I had resumes to look at it was a few years ago, pre-gpt. We had pretty a specific hard requirement (elixir experience), and easily 95% of the resumes had no mention of it. So I don't know if I'd blame artificial intelligence, more like natural stupidity. [edit] And by stupidity I mean people who just spam every job they see trying to get a hit. Like what were you planning to do if you got the job?
  - camdenreslink 3y ago
    Learn Elixir? It's just a programming language...
    - troyvit 3y ago
      I don't pay people for that. Job description called for at least 3 years' experience, which I should've added to my post.
MentallyRetired 3y ago
I think this tech downturn is all a collusion amongst tech leaders to bring down software developer salaries. How are so many places hiring yet so many are laying off thousands, and most of them in tech/development? Even the places laying people off are still hiring those positions.
- jorts 3y ago
  More like everyone realized that they can trim down to improve margins without taking a lot of flack.
  - downrightmike 3y ago
    Both
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    Yep, fire the devs after they've built the software. Fire them because the software is already built. Slowly your software grinds to a halt and dies because you release features too slow or your software starts to become very bad.
    - fnimick 3y ago
      By the time that happens the person who gets to tout the savings on their resume has already leveraged that for a salary bump somewhere else. It's an unfortunate reality that if you're employed (not a founder) and you think more than a year or so out, you are going to be outcompeted by people who optimize for short term gain and leave before the bill comes due.
    - myth_drannon 3y ago
      And some of the fired devs go to work for the competitor or start their own business. This is a natural lifecycle of software. Slowly rot and let others grow.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      sounds good, that's Future CEO's problem to solve. Who may or may not be current CEO. Current CEO gets a nice small bump in stocks and a good resume to jump off with.
rootusrootus 3y ago
> bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD I've wondered about that. Sometimes I see jobs that sounds super interesting, but I only match maybe 50% of the unique bits of experience they want. Then I see 200 applicants and think ... how many people are just applying for the hell of it, because the job sounds cool, even though they have none of the right experience?
- jacobsimon 3y ago
  recommend tailoring your resume to each job and highlighting the experiences/projects that are most relevant for that role :) also applying to newly posted positions and using referrals when you can
- noodle 3y ago
  > I've wondered about that. Sometimes I see jobs that sounds super interesting, but I only match maybe 50% of the unique bits of experience they want. Really depends on what the company needs. We're willing to talk to a pretty wide range of people about some of our roles, while for others we need someone specific. Honestly I think 50% is not that bad. We get a lot of 0% resumes.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Unfortunately, it depends on the company. Some job descriptions are sincere “we actually need this”; some are a wish list.
- paczki 3y ago
  I'm always applying for the hell of it, because job descriptions are a mess anyways. These companies actively say they're entry level-junior level and then requires 6+ years experience. If they're gonna waste my time by just trying to get more eyes on their position to game the filter system, then I'm going to waste their time by sending my resume. Let's not even talk about the companies that actively promote themselves as a remote position, and the chances of it actually being remote are about 10%.
whaleofatw2022 3y ago
> and the bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD. Been seeing a lot of this too. Backend specific job, .NET, and we get a bunch of folks who are front-end devs with maybe python or node.
- neon_electro 3y ago
  Do you make it clear that you will only accept candidates with strictly .NET experience? I've had plenty of reasonably positive experiences applying to places where I have the overall skill set (front-end or back-end) but do not have the exact tech stack the company uses as my strongest set of hard skills.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Both companies and applicants dance way out-of-step with each other on this. Companies list 10 things as "requirements" but are willing to hire candidates without all of them. To me, requirement means must-have, but what do I know? Candidates know that companies are not serious about the requirements, so they ignore them and apply. But, some of the requirements are "must have" from the point of view of the company, but they never say it. And sometimes even if they say "Experience in obscure XyZ framework is a must!" they still may bend the rules if John Carmack-like talent applies. It's such a mess.
    - PNewling 3y ago
      >Both companies and applicants dance way out-of-step with each other on this. 100% agree with this. The previous commenter's company probably does want exactly those things, but as you said, some other companies have HR write the job postings and it is just a game of telephone with what the hiring team actually needs. So they only way to find out is to apply, especially if you are currently unemployed you don't want to risk something just because you don't 100% line up to the position.
- surajrmal 3y ago
  I'm curious why you wouldn't consider those people just because their existing experience doesn't 100% overlap your tech stack? Could they not be trained on how to write backend .net? Wouldn't the diversity of experience be helpful for your team?
scarface_74 3y ago
> I think my suggestion is, do what you can to stand out Really, once you are unemployed and looking for a job, it’s too late to do anything to stand out. The time to do something to standout is while you are working. How will emailing someone directly help if he doesn’t have a unique set of skills that helps him stand out? If he is just another generic developer (no offense intended I don’t know anything about him and that’s how I would have described myself until 5 years ago) why would emdilokb
- Mixtape 3y ago
  > The time to do something to standout is while you are working. This is an issue I ran into recently during my post-undergrad job hunt. Having exited college without an internship, it was difficult to distinguish myself in any meaningful way. In my opinion, major, career-defining work needs to be at least six months' worth of dedication to be of any importance on a resume. Most people don't have the savings to go that long between jobs. I was fortunate enough to secure a well-paying internship over the next six months, but in all honesty I think I got lucky. It's tough out there if you don't have the existing background to set yourself apart.
- eikenberry 3y ago
  While I agree it is better to look for work while working, I don't see how that impacts how you stand out in a hiring process. How can you leverage an existing job to stand out to a new potential employer (while looking, ie. short time scales)?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I meant while you are working taking on tasks and responsibilities that will help you stand out in the market when it is time to look for another job. In other words, always keep an eye on the market and be prepared. That also means keeping a strong network, always answering emails and LinkedIn messages from recruiters and judging which ones are reputable and which ones aren’t and honestly, doing resume driven development.
    - 3y ago
tmaly 3y ago
I am seeing the same thing. I have 5 open positions. This past week I have seen a huge uptick in applications. We have streamlined our process to 3 interviews. We do not do Leetcode. Still with even a streamlined process, we were not seeing any senior Python developers for several months.

by noodle 3y ago

ransom1538 3y ago

I remember a report from facebook hiring, when they broke down how each person applied. It was something weird like %0.01 were hired by "walk in". Some person literally walked into FB headquarters and left with a job. I will say, if you walk into an office, you will NOT get ignored.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 3y ago
Of course you won't get ignored, you'll get escorted out by security. The likelihood of a hiring manager being in the office nowadays is also very low.
dustincoates 3y ago
I actually got my first job out of college this way. I was trying to get a job in something completely unrelated to what I studied, so I was doing whatever I could think of to get noticed. I still can't believe it worked, but it set me on a good path, at least.
- galangalalgol 3y ago
  I wonder what would happen if you somehow managed to find what coffee shop the hiring manager was working from that day and sat down next to them striking up a conversation. Obviously most of the ways you could do that are super creepy if not illegal, but then so is most of what FB and crew make.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Your comment reminds me of an awkward story: I worked at a company once where we were having trouble with Apple's AppStore review. The app was delisted and we were losing money daily. It was so bad the CEO came in and led a meeting to brainstorm what to do--all wild suggestions welcome, and worker-bee me got to be a fly on the wall. One of the VP-level execs mentioned in this meeting that he happened to know some breakfast or coffee shop where Tim Cook can sometimes be found before work. Well, the CEO loved this, and for a brief moment, "Physically accost Tim Cook in Palo Alto" was one of the leading candidates to solve our AppStore problem.
    - cutemonster 3y ago
      What did you do instead? Apparently you came up with something even better
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        Amazingly, what worked was: Actually read and follow the AppStore guidelines, rather than complain about how unfair the review was.
        cutemonster 3y ago
        Ok, interesting :-)
  - metalforever 3y ago
    We have an employee on my team that got a job this way a few years back. She is still with us and does good work.
Dirak 3y ago
This type of hiring is most likely reserved for Yann LeCun caliber talent. If you walk in to FB HQ without an appointment, 1) they wouldn’t let you in, and 2) you’d probably just make it awkward for the security guard
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree. That "walk-in" was probably Yann having lunch with another intellectually famous friend. Someone recognized them and took the chance to interview them.
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
I know this sounds 'old fashioned' but you really want to work for a particular company, walking in has had a surprising success rate for me over the years. Some are absolute sticks in the mud about requiring the candidate to apply online, but in many, you can at least chat with someone in hr or a hiring manager about the sorts of positions they have available and what skills they need. This all but guarantees your resume will be looked at by an actual human.
eulers_secret 3y ago
I got my first job by walking in. It was at a medical center, and I just asked the receptionist for the IT department. Got routed all over the med center. When I got to IT I found the telecom manager was way over worked and needed help, but had no time to search. So he interviewed and hired me on the spot. This was in 2007. I wouldn’t do that today, you won’t get past security at most places. It does happen, though.
- op00to 3y ago
  That’s awesome! Nice initiative! I got my first real tech job in a similar way. I was moving into a dorm at a state university (1999 or so) and the network was not working. No one around, so I went into the unlocked networking closet, found the IP for my floors switch, realized the ports were all disabled, got them enabled and passed out static IP information by the time the dorm networking manager got there. Was also hired on the spot!
LinuxBender 3y ago
As others mentioned this will not work at FB. Their lobby is 100% security and always busy as it is a massive campus. The only way a FB employee is even there is if they are waiting to escort someone in for a scheduled meeting. Getting into the campus would not be useful either. Its like a little college town. Offices require badging in. This might work at smaller companies however.

bsima 3y ago

> Now we're getting hundreds of resumes a week for each open position, and the bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD. What percentage of these resumes do you think are generated by GPT?

noodle 3y ago
Honestly, I don't know. I don't see enough of the "not close, easy rejection" type resumes, I see things after they've been filtered. But I'll see if I can get an answer to that question.
troyvit 3y ago
The last time I had resumes to look at it was a few years ago, pre-gpt. We had pretty a specific hard requirement (elixir experience), and easily 95% of the resumes had no mention of it. So I don't know if I'd blame artificial intelligence, more like natural stupidity. [edit] And by stupidity I mean people who just spam every job they see trying to get a hit. Like what were you planning to do if you got the job?
- camdenreslink 3y ago
  Learn Elixir? It's just a programming language...
  - troyvit 3y ago
    I don't pay people for that. Job description called for at least 3 years' experience, which I should've added to my post.

MentallyRetired 3y ago

I think this tech downturn is all a collusion amongst tech leaders to bring down software developer salaries. How are so many places hiring yet so many are laying off thousands, and most of them in tech/development? Even the places laying people off are still hiring those positions.

jorts 3y ago
More like everyone realized that they can trim down to improve margins without taking a lot of flack.
- downrightmike 3y ago
  Both
- polishdude20 3y ago
  Yep, fire the devs after they've built the software. Fire them because the software is already built. Slowly your software grinds to a halt and dies because you release features too slow or your software starts to become very bad.
  - fnimick 3y ago
    By the time that happens the person who gets to tout the savings on their resume has already leveraged that for a salary bump somewhere else. It's an unfortunate reality that if you're employed (not a founder) and you think more than a year or so out, you are going to be outcompeted by people who optimize for short term gain and leave before the bill comes due.
  - myth_drannon 3y ago
    And some of the fired devs go to work for the competitor or start their own business. This is a natural lifecycle of software. Slowly rot and let others grow.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    sounds good, that's Future CEO's problem to solve. Who may or may not be current CEO. Current CEO gets a nice small bump in stocks and a good resume to jump off with.

rootusrootus 3y ago

> bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD I've wondered about that. Sometimes I see jobs that sounds super interesting, but I only match maybe 50% of the unique bits of experience they want. Then I see 200 applicants and think ... how many people are just applying for the hell of it, because the job sounds cool, even though they have none of the right experience?

jacobsimon 3y ago
recommend tailoring your resume to each job and highlighting the experiences/projects that are most relevant for that role :) also applying to newly posted positions and using referrals when you can
noodle 3y ago
> I've wondered about that. Sometimes I see jobs that sounds super interesting, but I only match maybe 50% of the unique bits of experience they want. Really depends on what the company needs. We're willing to talk to a pretty wide range of people about some of our roles, while for others we need someone specific. Honestly I think 50% is not that bad. We get a lot of 0% resumes.
rsynnott 3y ago
Unfortunately, it depends on the company. Some job descriptions are sincere “we actually need this”; some are a wish list.
paczki 3y ago
I'm always applying for the hell of it, because job descriptions are a mess anyways. These companies actively say they're entry level-junior level and then requires 6+ years experience. If they're gonna waste my time by just trying to get more eyes on their position to game the filter system, then I'm going to waste their time by sending my resume. Let's not even talk about the companies that actively promote themselves as a remote position, and the chances of it actually being remote are about 10%.

whaleofatw2022 3y ago

> and the bulk of each one of those resumes do not come close to even being in conversation range of the posted JD. Been seeing a lot of this too. Backend specific job, .NET, and we get a bunch of folks who are front-end devs with maybe python or node.

neon_electro 3y ago
Do you make it clear that you will only accept candidates with strictly .NET experience? I've had plenty of reasonably positive experiences applying to places where I have the overall skill set (front-end or back-end) but do not have the exact tech stack the company uses as my strongest set of hard skills.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Both companies and applicants dance way out-of-step with each other on this. Companies list 10 things as "requirements" but are willing to hire candidates without all of them. To me, requirement means must-have, but what do I know? Candidates know that companies are not serious about the requirements, so they ignore them and apply. But, some of the requirements are "must have" from the point of view of the company, but they never say it. And sometimes even if they say "Experience in obscure XyZ framework is a must!" they still may bend the rules if John Carmack-like talent applies. It's such a mess.
  - PNewling 3y ago
    >Both companies and applicants dance way out-of-step with each other on this. 100% agree with this. The previous commenter's company probably does want exactly those things, but as you said, some other companies have HR write the job postings and it is just a game of telephone with what the hiring team actually needs. So they only way to find out is to apply, especially if you are currently unemployed you don't want to risk something just because you don't 100% line up to the position.
surajrmal 3y ago
I'm curious why you wouldn't consider those people just because their existing experience doesn't 100% overlap your tech stack? Could they not be trained on how to write backend .net? Wouldn't the diversity of experience be helpful for your team?

scarface_74 3y ago

> I think my suggestion is, do what you can to stand out Really, once you are unemployed and looking for a job, it’s too late to do anything to stand out. The time to do something to standout is while you are working. How will emailing someone directly help if he doesn’t have a unique set of skills that helps him stand out? If he is just another generic developer (no offense intended I don’t know anything about him and that’s how I would have described myself until 5 years ago) why would emdilokb

Mixtape 3y ago
> The time to do something to standout is while you are working. This is an issue I ran into recently during my post-undergrad job hunt. Having exited college without an internship, it was difficult to distinguish myself in any meaningful way. In my opinion, major, career-defining work needs to be at least six months' worth of dedication to be of any importance on a resume. Most people don't have the savings to go that long between jobs. I was fortunate enough to secure a well-paying internship over the next six months, but in all honesty I think I got lucky. It's tough out there if you don't have the existing background to set yourself apart.
eikenberry 3y ago
While I agree it is better to look for work while working, I don't see how that impacts how you stand out in a hiring process. How can you leverage an existing job to stand out to a new potential employer (while looking, ie. short time scales)?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I meant while you are working taking on tasks and responsibilities that will help you stand out in the market when it is time to look for another job. In other words, always keep an eye on the market and be prepared. That also means keeping a strong network, always answering emails and LinkedIn messages from recruiters and judging which ones are reputable and which ones aren’t and honestly, doing resume driven development.
  - 3y ago

tmaly 3y ago

I am seeing the same thing. I have 5 open positions. This past week I have seen a huge uptick in applications. We have streamlined our process to 3 interviews. We do not do Leetcode. Still with even a streamlined process, we were not seeing any senior Python developers for several months.