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Just ignored my questions to give the standard allusions rants.... "proves the collateral exists" means who validates the asset doesn't have a standard run of

Just ignored my questions to give the standard allusions rants.... "proves the collateral exists" means who validates the asset doesn't have a standard run of the mill contract/lien/etc? Just answer that, and _actually_ answer it (the site sure doesn't in any reasonable nor concise manner) and we'll go from there.

latchkey 3y ago
> standard allusions rants Oh, I see, you just want a hostile battle and don't want to do any sort of actual conversation around knowledge you refuse to learn on your own. > "proves the collateral exists" means who validates the asset doesn't have a standard run of the mill contract/lien/etc? I don't understand this line at all.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Making a vague reference to something isn't an answer, nor is a random link and a "look here", especially when the link doesn't provide the answer. And the fact you don't understand that line is the proof you don't know enough about traditional contracts to be able to compare them to smart contracts. Seriously.... you've just done more to prove to me that you crypto folks are generally just ignorant of real world issues.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > you've just done more to prove to me that you crypto folks are generally just ignorant of real world issues. I didn't know I was supposed to "prove" anything to you or handhold you on reading even the basics of the available documentation. All I have to say is your loss for not making the effort on your own and being so negative and combative. Good luck sir.
    - DropInIn 3y ago
      Just more deflections and allusions. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/encumbrance https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/encumbrance Educate yourself.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        You chastise me above for "the site sure doesn't in any reasonable nor concise manner" and then you do something even more silly. Oh the hypocrisy. At least I don't say something rude like "educate yourself." I'll end my replies here. This is a circular non-productive 'conversation'. It is clear reading your past comments here that everything is negative from you, which is really strange to me. Seriously, have a great day, but I'm done.
        DropInIn 3y ago
        You're insufferable. The definition for the word encumbrance is literally the opening line and is the exact issue at hand that you refuse to address. To quote it: "Encumbrance means any charge, claim, community property interest, pledge, condition, equitable interest, lien (statutory or other), option, security interest, mortgage, easement, encroachment, right of way, right of first refusal, or restriction of any kind, including any restriction on use, voting, transfer, receipt of income or exercise of any other attribute of ownership." How does AAVE or any other smart contracts ensure there are no outside encumbrances? It has to use human third parties and pay those fees, on top of the SC fees. Really, you're just proving to me that folks promoting this garbage are childish, ignorant and baseleslly arrogant. And BTW, You are the one running in circles. I've been asking you the same question without getting an answer for several comments now...
        latchkey 3y ago
        > It has to use human third parties and pay those fees, on top of the SC fees. No, it doesn't. This can be codified into contracts and automated. Voting in the DAO ensures no single point of failure.
        DropInIn 3y ago
        Any asset Off Chain must be validated Off Chain thereby adding external costs, which from my napkin math suggest the total costs would exceed traditional alternatives. And that's without even addressing actually checking for encumberance of the asset, which then makes the whole thing no different than traditional contracts except for much higher costs, an inability to readily modify without significant expense (if at all), and more. Without checking for encumberance Off chain the entire value proposition of an SC is a joke, as what the code says doesn't matter when a preexisting encumberance applies. (Ed: This applies to on chain assets as well) And if you're going to say it's not for off chain assets then all your saying is that one essentially can only use existing crypto to secure a crypto loan, which undermine the point of the loan ever being obtained.
dbmikus 3y ago
The collateral provably exists because blockchain code is public and ownership is secured via cryptography. Are you asking about an off-chain asset that is brought on-chain? For that, you are correct you need to rely on a socially trusted institution that attests that the off-chain asset isn't actually owned by someone else. There are some off-chain assets that are tokenized and are very trustworthy, IMO, such as USDC. And then there are a number of purely on-chain assets, such as ETH, MATIC (Polygon), and coins that power protocols like Uniswap and Aave and give the owner of those coins a right to dividends. The blockchain proves ownership of purely on-chain assets directly through cryptography. I do want to add, you are being pretty combative here towards someone that was genuinely answering your questions.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  So, by definition, the only asset that doesn't have external costs which make the SC cost _more_ than traditional paper contracts are those where the collateral asset is the exact same currency as will be issued? You do see the glaring issue there right? As for combative, I am beyond tired of the games played by crypto folks when it comes to answering basic questions they should already have the answers for. If they don't answer the simple questions with clear and simple answers, then why should I act as though they are acting in good faith, let alone actually educated on the topics they claim the tech solves to know whether it solves a problem at all? Because from my perspective they sure as hell aren't. Ed: oh I forgot to include the other major issue that undermines even on chain encumberance, that is the fact that a preceding off chain encumbrance takes precedent in court and thus even if the SC executes properly the funds may be taken by the courts as a consequence of preexisting encumbrance and thereby undermine the entire value proposition of the SC.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > As for combative, I am beyond tired of the games played by crypto folks when it comes to answering basic questions they should already have the answers for. I did answer your questions.
    - 3y ago

latchkey 3y ago

> standard allusions rants Oh, I see, you just want a hostile battle and don't want to do any sort of actual conversation around knowledge you refuse to learn on your own. > "proves the collateral exists" means who validates the asset doesn't have a standard run of the mill contract/lien/etc? I don't understand this line at all.

DropInIn 3y ago
Making a vague reference to something isn't an answer, nor is a random link and a "look here", especially when the link doesn't provide the answer. And the fact you don't understand that line is the proof you don't know enough about traditional contracts to be able to compare them to smart contracts. Seriously.... you've just done more to prove to me that you crypto folks are generally just ignorant of real world issues.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > you've just done more to prove to me that you crypto folks are generally just ignorant of real world issues. I didn't know I was supposed to "prove" anything to you or handhold you on reading even the basics of the available documentation. All I have to say is your loss for not making the effort on your own and being so negative and combative. Good luck sir.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Just more deflections and allusions. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/encumbrance https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/encumbrance Educate yourself.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      You chastise me above for "the site sure doesn't in any reasonable nor concise manner" and then you do something even more silly. Oh the hypocrisy. At least I don't say something rude like "educate yourself." I'll end my replies here. This is a circular non-productive 'conversation'. It is clear reading your past comments here that everything is negative from you, which is really strange to me. Seriously, have a great day, but I'm done.
      - DropInIn 3y ago
        You're insufferable. The definition for the word encumbrance is literally the opening line and is the exact issue at hand that you refuse to address. To quote it: "Encumbrance means any charge, claim, community property interest, pledge, condition, equitable interest, lien (statutory or other), option, security interest, mortgage, easement, encroachment, right of way, right of first refusal, or restriction of any kind, including any restriction on use, voting, transfer, receipt of income or exercise of any other attribute of ownership." How does AAVE or any other smart contracts ensure there are no outside encumbrances? It has to use human third parties and pay those fees, on top of the SC fees. Really, you're just proving to me that folks promoting this garbage are childish, ignorant and baseleslly arrogant. And BTW, You are the one running in circles. I've been asking you the same question without getting an answer for several comments now...
        latchkey 3y ago
        > It has to use human third parties and pay those fees, on top of the SC fees. No, it doesn't. This can be codified into contracts and automated. Voting in the DAO ensures no single point of failure.
        DropInIn 3y ago
        Any asset Off Chain must be validated Off Chain thereby adding external costs, which from my napkin math suggest the total costs would exceed traditional alternatives. And that's without even addressing actually checking for encumberance of the asset, which then makes the whole thing no different than traditional contracts except for much higher costs, an inability to readily modify without significant expense (if at all), and more. Without checking for encumberance Off chain the entire value proposition of an SC is a joke, as what the code says doesn't matter when a preexisting encumberance applies. (Ed: This applies to on chain assets as well) And if you're going to say it's not for off chain assets then all your saying is that one essentially can only use existing crypto to secure a crypto loan, which undermine the point of the loan ever being obtained.

dbmikus 3y ago

The collateral provably exists because blockchain code is public and ownership is secured via cryptography. Are you asking about an off-chain asset that is brought on-chain? For that, you are correct you need to rely on a socially trusted institution that attests that the off-chain asset isn't actually owned by someone else. There are some off-chain assets that are tokenized and are very trustworthy, IMO, such as USDC. And then there are a number of purely on-chain assets, such as ETH, MATIC (Polygon), and coins that power protocols like Uniswap and Aave and give the owner of those coins a right to dividends. The blockchain proves ownership of purely on-chain assets directly through cryptography. I do want to add, you are being pretty combative here towards someone that was genuinely answering your questions.

DropInIn 3y ago
So, by definition, the only asset that doesn't have external costs which make the SC cost _more_ than traditional paper contracts are those where the collateral asset is the exact same currency as will be issued? You do see the glaring issue there right? As for combative, I am beyond tired of the games played by crypto folks when it comes to answering basic questions they should already have the answers for. If they don't answer the simple questions with clear and simple answers, then why should I act as though they are acting in good faith, let alone actually educated on the topics they claim the tech solves to know whether it solves a problem at all? Because from my perspective they sure as hell aren't. Ed: oh I forgot to include the other major issue that undermines even on chain encumberance, that is the fact that a preceding off chain encumbrance takes precedent in court and thus even if the SC executes properly the funds may be taken by the courts as a consequence of preexisting encumbrance and thereby undermine the entire value proposition of the SC.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > As for combative, I am beyond tired of the games played by crypto folks when it comes to answering basic questions they should already have the answers for. I did answer your questions.
  - 3y ago