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I know this is completely off-topic but I am Dutch and never MET anyone that was laid off. Non of my friends, family and even colleague's (and I work in IT-cons

I know this is completely off-topic but I am Dutch and never MET anyone that was laid off. Non of my friends, family and even colleague's (and I work in IT-consultancy so I see loads of people). How common is this in America? Is it normal that in your career your are fired at least once?

zdragnar 3y ago
There have been some industry wide collapses- the dot com bust in 2000-2002 most notably, a few more industry specific slumps such as during the housing market crash in 08, and most recently FAANG-esque companies went on an absolutely wild hiring spree during COVID lockdowns and remote-work period. Many big tech companies went through a round or two of layoffs in the last year. I interviewed I think two or three junior devs a few months back who had been hired at Facebook or Twitter or some other company and let go within a few months of being hired. Note that "fired" and "laid off" are very different things, with different causes, worker protections, and expectations around i.e. severance. I don't know that it is uncommon to get laid off at some point, but it also isn't something that you really go into a job expecting will happen either. Personally, the only people I know of who were laid off were in non-tech fields.
meeuwer 3y ago
They prefer stealth layoffs here in the Netherlands. The end result is the same: you’re out, but with no severance and gaslit AF. Thanks Rutte, I guess?
- ivolimmen 3y ago
  Yeah but that is only in large corporations right? I have one friend that works at KPN and survived 3 rounds of lay-offs. I personally could not cope with that kind of stress. I only work at and for smaller companies. Currently I am the only employee at my company. It's only me and my employer.
  - meeuwer 3y ago
    Indeed, it seems to be a large corporations thing.
- MrDresden 3y ago
  How do stealth layoffs function and how did the Dutch government make it possible (as I'm understanding your comment saying)?
  - meeuwer 3y ago
    When a corporation runs out of money, the managers get an assignment to hand out a high number of performance improvement plans to their direct reports. Those who can leave, prefer to resign. Those who can’t, stay and play along and face either no pay adjustment / no promotion or risk getting fired for “underperforming” after a while. Either way, the company achieves its goals of reducing the costs and headcount. Of course this works only if you have a well-oiled HR machine and docile managers, which is typical for every Big Corp out there.
mongol 3y ago
How old are you? That sounds unusual to be honest, to not even have met someone. I am from Sweden, I have been fired even though there are strong labour protections here. Fired probably the wrong word, made redundant probably more accurate. It happened during the dotcom-bubble in 2001. It comes and goes in periods but I think most people go through life without being fired.
- ivolimmen 3y ago
  I am 48
yolo3000 3y ago
It happens in dutch startups as well. A recent example would be VanMoof. I've seen a lot of people being laid off. One time, 3 VPs under the CEO each took a meeting room, and started calling in some of their people to lay off. After they were done, the CEO calls in and fires these VPs. In bigger companies it only happens when the whole company does a reorganisation, otherwise managers don't lay off people because it's a hassle, or they don't want to lose budget. I have a dev colleague now who's written 200 LOC in the past year, no one does anything about it.

zdragnar 3y ago

There have been some industry wide collapses- the dot com bust in 2000-2002 most notably, a few more industry specific slumps such as during the housing market crash in 08, and most recently FAANG-esque companies went on an absolutely wild hiring spree during COVID lockdowns and remote-work period. Many big tech companies went through a round or two of layoffs in the last year. I interviewed I think two or three junior devs a few months back who had been hired at Facebook or Twitter or some other company and let go within a few months of being hired. Note that "fired" and "laid off" are very different things, with different causes, worker protections, and expectations around i.e. severance. I don't know that it is uncommon to get laid off at some point, but it also isn't something that you really go into a job expecting will happen either. Personally, the only people I know of who were laid off were in non-tech fields.

meeuwer 3y ago

They prefer stealth layoffs here in the Netherlands. The end result is the same: you’re out, but with no severance and gaslit AF. Thanks Rutte, I guess?

ivolimmen 3y ago
Yeah but that is only in large corporations right? I have one friend that works at KPN and survived 3 rounds of lay-offs. I personally could not cope with that kind of stress. I only work at and for smaller companies. Currently I am the only employee at my company. It's only me and my employer.
- meeuwer 3y ago
  Indeed, it seems to be a large corporations thing.
MrDresden 3y ago
How do stealth layoffs function and how did the Dutch government make it possible (as I'm understanding your comment saying)?
- meeuwer 3y ago
  When a corporation runs out of money, the managers get an assignment to hand out a high number of performance improvement plans to their direct reports. Those who can leave, prefer to resign. Those who can’t, stay and play along and face either no pay adjustment / no promotion or risk getting fired for “underperforming” after a while. Either way, the company achieves its goals of reducing the costs and headcount. Of course this works only if you have a well-oiled HR machine and docile managers, which is typical for every Big Corp out there.

mongol 3y ago

How old are you? That sounds unusual to be honest, to not even have met someone. I am from Sweden, I have been fired even though there are strong labour protections here. Fired probably the wrong word, made redundant probably more accurate. It happened during the dotcom-bubble in 2001. It comes and goes in periods but I think most people go through life without being fired.

ivolimmen 3y ago
I am 48

yolo3000 3y ago

It happens in dutch startups as well. A recent example would be VanMoof. I've seen a lot of people being laid off. One time, 3 VPs under the CEO each took a meeting room, and started calling in some of their people to lay off. After they were done, the CEO calls in and fires these VPs. In bigger companies it only happens when the whole company does a reorganisation, otherwise managers don't lay off people because it's a hassle, or they don't want to lose budget. I have a dev colleague now who's written 200 LOC in the past year, no one does anything about it.