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The reason why everyone sleeps on the Cheesecake Factory is very simple. The problem CCF solves is simply never encountered by the upper middle class because en

The reason why everyone sleeps on the Cheesecake Factory is very simple. The problem CCF solves is simply never encountered by the upper middle class because entry into this stratum is socially coded by having an adventurous palate where outwardly acting like a picky eater is a mark of shame. Thus, CCF is viewed as a class shibboleth because the problem CCF solves extremely well is getting together a group of people with lots of picky eaters who are all different kinds of picky eaters but who all still want good food and you have to pick a place you can all go. You're simply never expected to run into this problem if you run in upper middle class circles but it's a nightmare scenario for everyone else in cities without a CCF and having a CCF in your city solves it in a way that is a meaningful upgrade in your quality of life. As a result, people vastly underestimate the difficulty of this problem and how poor CCF's competitors are compared to it and how much brand loyalty people who don't have this social coding have towards this company for perfectly logical reasons. CCF's great accomplishment is not just realizing this but then designing their entire restaurant from the ground up to totally holistically solve this very hard problem and their near monopoly level profits are a reward for their hard work.

irrational 3y ago
I wish people would say why they are downvoting you. Because, in my experience, you are right on. I assume the downvoters disagree, but, why do they disagree?
- zdragnar 3y ago
  I didn't vote, but I find myself a little confused. I suspect the whole "upper middle class" bit has to be a regional thing; it simply doesn't fit my experiences at all. Around where I live, there's certainly no stigma at all about being a picky eater, or at least not one that's in any way specific to a social class. Plenty of people have preferences, and there's no shortage of places to go that offer genetic (casual or fine) dining that everyone will accept.
  - Filligree 3y ago
    Contrary: There absolutely is such a stigma here, and it gets people socially in trouble if they’re picky. I suppose it varies, but it only needs to be true some of the time for CCF to be profitable.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      It's not exactly about "here" or "there". It's more about people in peer groups preoccupied with class distinctions, vs, say, 90% of Americans who could not give less fucks about it. Region plays a role in the distribution and size of such peer groups though.
      - constantly 3y ago
        Class distinction is a second order effect and isn’t really the topic being discussed. The primary mover is pickiness, which does generally track with class.
        ghaff 3y ago
        And class tends to also correlate with having traveled a lot which at least tracks with developing a more varied appetite for different foods. Added: Per another comment, people can also be picky not with respect to not eating unusual foods but with respect to not eating mediocre food.
    - proamdev123 3y ago
      > it gets people socially in trouble if they’re picky. What does it look like when somebody gets “socially in trouble” for being picky? What actually happens to them (socially) in this instance? I’ve never seen or heard of anything like this, so I’m really curious about it.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I’m not sure if I’d use the term but if someone in a group is constantly high maintenance with respect to food, both the group and they themselves probably lose interest in paddling against the current. It’s not even really pickiness per se. If some group always wants to just eat fast food I’m going to be less inclined to join them. No value judgement. Just not my thing.
smelendez 3y ago
Sure—I'm not totally convinced by the class analysis but the big menu is definitely a reason to go. In a lot of cities, diners, especially Greek-owned diners, traditionally filled this role of restaurant with a menu the proverbial size of a phone book, but they're fewer in number and their menus have often shrank. The "high-low" aesthetic the article mentions is important, too, I think. You can go there in a lot of contexts and it doesn't feel weird, because it isn't any normal genre of restaurant you have associations with, nor does it have a hokey theme. Teenagers can go, families can go, couples can go, coworkers can go. People go for dessert, people go for takeout, people go for drinks and appetizers.
- asah 3y ago
  fascinating comparison! can wholeheartedly confirm! A close friend was a super picky eater, and he'd order the same safe things while it allowed "adventurous" (for the 1980s) eaters to sample greek and italian foods not found at strictly-American places like Friendly's.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  > the big menu is definitely a reason to go The problem with chain restaurants is that the more they offer the more likely it's pre-prepared frozen/canned food that they just reheated or dropped in a fryer.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    "You promised me a meal that someone else microwaved!"
  - Arrath 3y ago
    To be fair, a goodly portion of the small town diners and cafes across the country could reasonably be classified as Sysco storefronts.
    - BitwiseFool 3y ago
      I set out to try a wide variety of local 'mom and pop' pizza restaurants and I quickly realized that all of them used the same supplier. In fact most of them even use the same sauce recipe.
happytiger 3y ago
I understand why people won’t be happy about what you are saying, but what you saying grabs at the essential nature of their success. I don’t think it’s an “upper middle” thing but it is the class thing. It’s the default. The mass produced essential corner store or bar. And anyone can be seen there, and the food is customizable and nobody ever gets embarrassed or loses face for picking the place and the service is consistent. It is the quintessential Hydreuma — for every thirsty Roman.
- hgsgm 3y ago
  It's impressive the contortions people go to try to shame other for enjoying decent food at a decent price, and not obsessed with proving they are cool. Luckily, we're busy enjoying our food, family, and friends.
smugma 3y ago
This is a novel insight that the article doesn’t touch on. It’s absolutely a class indicator. You could order a steak well done at The Factory and you’d fit right in. It fits in with people who have a concept of “fine dining”, which they may not go to much but understand what it means. In other circles in big cities, fine dining is equally rare but spending $75-150/pp at a “casual” (meaning no tablecloth) restaurant is normal. $100 for casual dining is the exact opposite of what The Factory is about.
MrMan 3y ago
[dead]
alistairSH 3y ago
I find myself agreeing with the class part of your analysis, but think there are other options they fill this niche… Outback Steakhouse, The local diner (more so if family owned), Applebees and TGIF. Is CCF viewed as higher quality/status than these? I occasionally eat at Outback but not the others, partly location, partly because I find CCF overpriced for very mediocre food.
- phlakaton 3y ago
  Applebee’s has long been criticized on the Internet for having food that is pre-made offsite and heated on-premise – something this article swears is common among chains but which CCF does not do. Yeah, the CCF dining room decor and packed waiting room convey a quite different status than your more pub-like “neighborhood” Applebee’s and TGIF’s, or your typically humble diner.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Interesting. I would have assumed CCF prepped food similarly to the other “cheap” chains. But, I’m not the target audience. I’ll pick a local ethnic place over a chain almost every time. And only use chains when forced by co-workers who won’t deviate from a generic “American” menu.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I fully agree with your points. I’m not sure if it’s class or general inclination to travel etc. but I’m imagining if I went out with friends and peers at a conference, say, the horror at the idea people would have of going to a chain, including CCF, rather than some locally appropriate restaurant—even if a local chain. But, yeah, most of my friends and people I travel with would think nothing of going to a Chinese restaurant and eating with chopsticks. Not a judgement and we’d probably have a perfectly good time and dinner at a CCF but it would have pretty much a zero chance of happening. I do find it interesting though how many people this simple observation seems to upset.
      - 3y ago
hgsgm 3y ago
Upper middle class is different from hipster. CCF thrives in upper middle class areas.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  I think you and the person you're responding to are using different definitions of "upper middle class".
rz2k 3y ago
This is exactly what people were really talking about a few years ago on Reddit with the post about being in New York, but then eating at the Times Square Olive Garden. Only a few blocks away is Bryant Park Grill. Prices at the two restaurants are surprisingly similar and both have over 500 seats. However, different people will enjoy their meal, or be uncomfortable or even offended at either one. - https://bryantparkgrillnyc.com/ https://bryantparkgrillnyc.com/ - https://www.olivegarden.com/locations/ny/new-york/nyc-times-square/1451 https://www.olivegarden.com/locations/ny/new-york/nyc-times-... It could also explain why Yelp restaurant reviews are so baffling. They need to figure out how to cluster reviewers by what “language” they’re actually speaking on restaurants.
- ghaff 3y ago
  It’s one reason the old Zagat’s was so useful as the original crowd-sourced reviews. No one but foodies would fill out their (paper) questionnaires so the guides were correspondingly on target for other foodies.
xattt 3y ago
> You're simply never expected to run into this problem if you run in upper middle class circles So is the picky eater problem a shibboleth of an SES class higher or lower than upper-middle? I can see lower classes being picky because of limited exposure to novel foods, but higher classes because of unrealistic culinary expectations.
- sdwr 3y ago
  Lower-class = can't Upper-class = won't The word "picky" demonstrates the social wrapper in action: lower-class "can't eat that food - I'm scared of it / it might throw off my digestion / not be worth the price" is disguised as the upper-class "I could eat that but would rather have..." to save face.
soligern 3y ago
> the upper middle class because entry into this stratum is socially coded by having an adventurous palate where outwardly acting like a picky eater is a mark of shame. This is changing or has already changed. People in the upper middle class love to exclude certain basic food groups like meat, milk, bread etc. as a projection of their identity.

irrational 3y ago

I wish people would say why they are downvoting you. Because, in my experience, you are right on. I assume the downvoters disagree, but, why do they disagree?

zdragnar 3y ago
I didn't vote, but I find myself a little confused. I suspect the whole "upper middle class" bit has to be a regional thing; it simply doesn't fit my experiences at all. Around where I live, there's certainly no stigma at all about being a picky eater, or at least not one that's in any way specific to a social class. Plenty of people have preferences, and there's no shortage of places to go that offer genetic (casual or fine) dining that everyone will accept.
- Filligree 3y ago
  Contrary: There absolutely is such a stigma here, and it gets people socially in trouble if they’re picky. I suppose it varies, but it only needs to be true some of the time for CCF to be profitable.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    It's not exactly about "here" or "there". It's more about people in peer groups preoccupied with class distinctions, vs, say, 90% of Americans who could not give less fucks about it. Region plays a role in the distribution and size of such peer groups though.
    - constantly 3y ago
      Class distinction is a second order effect and isn’t really the topic being discussed. The primary mover is pickiness, which does generally track with class.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        And class tends to also correlate with having traveled a lot which at least tracks with developing a more varied appetite for different foods. Added: Per another comment, people can also be picky not with respect to not eating unusual foods but with respect to not eating mediocre food.
  - proamdev123 3y ago
    > it gets people socially in trouble if they’re picky. What does it look like when somebody gets “socially in trouble” for being picky? What actually happens to them (socially) in this instance? I’ve never seen or heard of anything like this, so I’m really curious about it.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I’m not sure if I’d use the term but if someone in a group is constantly high maintenance with respect to food, both the group and they themselves probably lose interest in paddling against the current. It’s not even really pickiness per se. If some group always wants to just eat fast food I’m going to be less inclined to join them. No value judgement. Just not my thing.

smelendez 3y ago

Sure—I'm not totally convinced by the class analysis but the big menu is definitely a reason to go. In a lot of cities, diners, especially Greek-owned diners, traditionally filled this role of restaurant with a menu the proverbial size of a phone book, but they're fewer in number and their menus have often shrank. The "high-low" aesthetic the article mentions is important, too, I think. You can go there in a lot of contexts and it doesn't feel weird, because it isn't any normal genre of restaurant you have associations with, nor does it have a hokey theme. Teenagers can go, families can go, couples can go, coworkers can go. People go for dessert, people go for takeout, people go for drinks and appetizers.

asah 3y ago
fascinating comparison! can wholeheartedly confirm! A close friend was a super picky eater, and he'd order the same safe things while it allowed "adventurous" (for the 1980s) eaters to sample greek and italian foods not found at strictly-American places like Friendly's.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
> the big menu is definitely a reason to go The problem with chain restaurants is that the more they offer the more likely it's pre-prepared frozen/canned food that they just reheated or dropped in a fryer.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  "You promised me a meal that someone else microwaved!"
- Arrath 3y ago
  To be fair, a goodly portion of the small town diners and cafes across the country could reasonably be classified as Sysco storefronts.
  - BitwiseFool 3y ago
    I set out to try a wide variety of local 'mom and pop' pizza restaurants and I quickly realized that all of them used the same supplier. In fact most of them even use the same sauce recipe.

happytiger 3y ago

I understand why people won’t be happy about what you are saying, but what you saying grabs at the essential nature of their success. I don’t think it’s an “upper middle” thing but it is the class thing. It’s the default. The mass produced essential corner store or bar. And anyone can be seen there, and the food is customizable and nobody ever gets embarrassed or loses face for picking the place and the service is consistent. It is the quintessential Hydreuma — for every thirsty Roman.

hgsgm 3y ago
It's impressive the contortions people go to try to shame other for enjoying decent food at a decent price, and not obsessed with proving they are cool. Luckily, we're busy enjoying our food, family, and friends.

smugma 3y ago

This is a novel insight that the article doesn’t touch on. It’s absolutely a class indicator. You could order a steak well done at The Factory and you’d fit right in. It fits in with people who have a concept of “fine dining”, which they may not go to much but understand what it means. In other circles in big cities, fine dining is equally rare but spending $75-150/pp at a “casual” (meaning no tablecloth) restaurant is normal. $100 for casual dining is the exact opposite of what The Factory is about.

MrMan 3y ago

[dead]

alistairSH 3y ago

I find myself agreeing with the class part of your analysis, but think there are other options they fill this niche… Outback Steakhouse, The local diner (more so if family owned), Applebees and TGIF. Is CCF viewed as higher quality/status than these? I occasionally eat at Outback but not the others, partly location, partly because I find CCF overpriced for very mediocre food.

phlakaton 3y ago
Applebee’s has long been criticized on the Internet for having food that is pre-made offsite and heated on-premise – something this article swears is common among chains but which CCF does not do. Yeah, the CCF dining room decor and packed waiting room convey a quite different status than your more pub-like “neighborhood” Applebee’s and TGIF’s, or your typically humble diner.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Interesting. I would have assumed CCF prepped food similarly to the other “cheap” chains. But, I’m not the target audience. I’ll pick a local ethnic place over a chain almost every time. And only use chains when forced by co-workers who won’t deviate from a generic “American” menu.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I fully agree with your points. I’m not sure if it’s class or general inclination to travel etc. but I’m imagining if I went out with friends and peers at a conference, say, the horror at the idea people would have of going to a chain, including CCF, rather than some locally appropriate restaurant—even if a local chain. But, yeah, most of my friends and people I travel with would think nothing of going to a Chinese restaurant and eating with chopsticks. Not a judgement and we’d probably have a perfectly good time and dinner at a CCF but it would have pretty much a zero chance of happening. I do find it interesting though how many people this simple observation seems to upset.
    - 3y ago

hgsgm 3y ago

Upper middle class is different from hipster. CCF thrives in upper middle class areas.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago
I think you and the person you're responding to are using different definitions of "upper middle class".

rz2k 3y ago

This is exactly what people were really talking about a few years ago on Reddit with the post about being in New York, but then eating at the Times Square Olive Garden. Only a few blocks away is Bryant Park Grill. Prices at the two restaurants are surprisingly similar and both have over 500 seats. However, different people will enjoy their meal, or be uncomfortable or even offended at either one. - https://bryantparkgrillnyc.com/ https://bryantparkgrillnyc.com/ - https://www.olivegarden.com/locations/ny/new-york/nyc-times-square/1451 https://www.olivegarden.com/locations/ny/new-york/nyc-times-... It could also explain why Yelp restaurant reviews are so baffling. They need to figure out how to cluster reviewers by what “language” they’re actually speaking on restaurants.

ghaff 3y ago
It’s one reason the old Zagat’s was so useful as the original crowd-sourced reviews. No one but foodies would fill out their (paper) questionnaires so the guides were correspondingly on target for other foodies.

xattt 3y ago

> You're simply never expected to run into this problem if you run in upper middle class circles So is the picky eater problem a shibboleth of an SES class higher or lower than upper-middle? I can see lower classes being picky because of limited exposure to novel foods, but higher classes because of unrealistic culinary expectations.

sdwr 3y ago
Lower-class = can't Upper-class = won't The word "picky" demonstrates the social wrapper in action: lower-class "can't eat that food - I'm scared of it / it might throw off my digestion / not be worth the price" is disguised as the upper-class "I could eat that but would rather have..." to save face.

soligern 3y ago

> the upper middle class because entry into this stratum is socially coded by having an adventurous palate where outwardly acting like a picky eater is a mark of shame. This is changing or has already changed. People in the upper middle class love to exclude certain basic food groups like meat, milk, bread etc. as a projection of their identity.