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I don't mean to suggest apathy. I mean that whatever solutions we come up with need to be realistic and take into account geopolitical. The east may be building

I don't mean to suggest apathy. I mean that whatever solutions we come up with need to be realistic and take into account geopolitical. The east may be building lots of nuclear and renewable but their emissions are still rising much faster than the west. I hope that changes but I don't see any reason to believe that.

TheCoelacanth 3y ago
Emissions in developing are rising being they are starting from a much lower baseline. We can't expect them to just stay poor forever for the our benefit. If rich countries set an example of how to have a high standard of living without massive per capita pollution, the rest of the world will follow that.
- brutusborn 3y ago
  I’m not expecting anyone to stay poor, I just want politicians and scientists to call a spade a spade. I don’t think the rest of the world will necessarily follow. If there is a competitive advantage to pollute, poor countries will do so. It’s similar to how we expected China to follow the democratic model. I think the ideal solution is some kind of tariff regime that makes emitters pay equivalent externalities. This could be done for all pollution, not just ghg.
  - soligern 3y ago
    No, tariffs should not be equitable. If anything there should be a certain threshold of the development status of a country above which the tariffs should apply. It’s fair as well, the vast majority of greenhouse emissions up to this point have been from countries that are currently developed. The rest of the world will follow because renewable energy is beyond/at the cusp of being cheaper than fossil fuels and no one is interested in maintaining a reliance on oil from the Middle East, Russia and Northern Europe.
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      Developed countries aren’t going to fund the transition in poor countries. And if we don’t include them a tariff like system, they will have no incentive to decarbonise. I’d love renewables to be cheapest, but if you include storage and demolition of old panels/wind turbines then this isn’t the case. There’s a reason coal/gas plants are still being built. If it was actually cheaper to go renewable, it would be the only power source we see.

TheCoelacanth 3y ago

Emissions in developing are rising being they are starting from a much lower baseline. We can't expect them to just stay poor forever for the our benefit. If rich countries set an example of how to have a high standard of living without massive per capita pollution, the rest of the world will follow that.

brutusborn 3y ago
I’m not expecting anyone to stay poor, I just want politicians and scientists to call a spade a spade. I don’t think the rest of the world will necessarily follow. If there is a competitive advantage to pollute, poor countries will do so. It’s similar to how we expected China to follow the democratic model. I think the ideal solution is some kind of tariff regime that makes emitters pay equivalent externalities. This could be done for all pollution, not just ghg.
- soligern 3y ago
  No, tariffs should not be equitable. If anything there should be a certain threshold of the development status of a country above which the tariffs should apply. It’s fair as well, the vast majority of greenhouse emissions up to this point have been from countries that are currently developed. The rest of the world will follow because renewable energy is beyond/at the cusp of being cheaper than fossil fuels and no one is interested in maintaining a reliance on oil from the Middle East, Russia and Northern Europe.
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    Developed countries aren’t going to fund the transition in poor countries. And if we don’t include them a tariff like system, they will have no incentive to decarbonise. I’d love renewables to be cheapest, but if you include storage and demolition of old panels/wind turbines then this isn’t the case. There’s a reason coal/gas plants are still being built. If it was actually cheaper to go renewable, it would be the only power source we see.