6 ms·

Paul Graham PyCon 2012 keynote

180 points by JarekS 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
santa_boy 15y ago
Was waiting for this one :-)
opining 15y ago
Thanks for posting. Notes from this keynote were also discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3685444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3685444 PG seems down on Google from the initial statement that it may have peaked, to making fun of its search results as similar to the scientologist principle of "what's true is what's true for you" or something that makes you feel like you are being A-B tested, to Gmail being painfully slow. PG said he would pay $50/month for a good email replacement, and after just having talked about his friend at Google complaining of too much email and saying Gmail was slow, I think he was implying that Gmail needs to be replaced. So, what interests me most about this is his mention of his friend at Google. Read: http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ideas http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ide... Matt Cutts (search engine God of Google) said "I’ll stop with a story. I have a friend at Google who is really good at noticing things that annoy him. While walking from his car to his desk in the morning, he can easily find six things that irritate him because they should be improved." Matt says this is "his" friend, but is Matt Cutts PG's Google friend? This sounds very similar, and there is a hint of their relationship at the end of this article when PG got him to personally handle an issue with HN not being listed first in search results: http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul-graham-knows-how-to-scal/ http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul-graham-knows-ho... However, a better guess is probably that it is Peter Norvig, Director of Research. There are examples of their relationship around, like Peter reading a draft of his: http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355984 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355984 It's interesting that PG is pushing for someone to compete with Google though. It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas.
- ma2rten 15y ago
  It might also be Paul Buchheit. He also reviewed a couple of PG's essays.
  - iconfinder 15y ago
    Including the last one where Paul corrected the comment about Gmail being slow.
    - opining 15y ago
      Good point. It does seem that Paul B. could be the friend. In addition, PG mentions Paul B. in several places, just a few including: http://www.paulgraham.com/13sentences.html http://www.paulgraham.com/13sentences.html http://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html http://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html If true, it's especially interesting that Paul B. was the creator and lead developer of Gmail and that he corrected PG by stating that "GMail has become painfully slow" instead of "GMail is painfully slow" thereby humorously dissociating himself from the act of having developed something slow.
- pg 15y ago
  It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas. No. Why would I allow myself to be used in that way?
  - opining 15y ago
    My apologies. I did not mean that you were being used. More that your friend did not have the option to come out publicly criticizing Google, but you were able to. Google is in the position of target of criticism lately just as Microsoft and many other large companies are, however by referring to your conversation with your friend in the same context, you lend credibility to the notion that perhaps some of the criticism was his.
- dmix 15y ago
  This sounds like a bad techcrunch article.
facundo_olano 15y ago
Here's the transcript at Graham's site http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
swah 15y ago
Y U PUT NO SHOES? Really there are shoes as comfortable as those sandals...
swah 15y ago
Its interesting to listen to this after reading the article; its as I'm rereading with a laugh track.
oemera 15y ago
I don't mean to be harsh but after reading the article I couldn't listen to the "Uhhh Ehmmmm"s anymore. Was he just reading the transcript to the guys? A keynote should be without any "uhh"s and "ehmmm"s otherwise you will not get audience IMO.
- kevinalexbrown 15y ago
  'what HN users don't mean to be:' http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27t+mean+to+be%22&sortby=create_ts+asc http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27...
  - swombat 15y ago
    "English to nerd translation": http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to-english.php http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to-engli...
- Jach 15y ago
  For me there seems to be a proportion of "uhhs" that I require. This talk had a lot of them, more than I'd prefer, but it wasn't horrible and the content makes up for it (as does the Q&A). The extent of the reliance on the transcript was probably the extent people rely on notecards, the "uhhs" were mostly to fill the silence of when he was glancing at it to remind him of his place. If there aren't any "uhhs" at all in a talk I think "this guy took a speaking course and is probably trying to manipulate me", if there are too many I think "this guy didn't prepare or is just a bad public speaker", but there's a right proportion that makes me think "he's sufficiently human so I'll listen to him." Of course that last thought requires a bit of double-think since a good manipulator would know this about me. Edit: of course, this is more of a description of how my subconscious works. Consciously I try my best to ignore these things and focus on the information content alone and feel like I should downvote you for letting yourself miss interesting content because of the speaker's presentation style. (Though to be fair at least you have the text version for 99% of the content.)
- whatsthevalue 15y ago
  Sounded like he's about take take a feace
aravindc 15y ago
This is my first time seeing and listening Paul Graham. Why is he going on ummm ummmm? It is so distracting. I don't want to be seen as critical, just a feedback.
- opining 15y ago
  You'd do that too if you had to present in front of a large group of Python developers. Calling them the center of the valley was a little over the top, though.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
opining 15y ago
See also the comments in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3686840 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3686840
k33n 15y ago
Listening to Paul Graham philosophizing about product ideas is like listening to product guys trying to talk finance.
zyfo 15y ago
Question for pg: There is probably an essay there, too bad I don't write them anymore (43.30 in video, regarding "moral compass outsourcing") Have you stopped writing essays? Does that mean you're shifting your focus to YC 100% or going back to work on arc again? Or are you talking about non-startup essays?
- pg 15y ago
  Actually I just wrote the first draft of one of the essays I said during that talk I should write. Writing essays depends on having uninterrupted blocks of time. Between kids and the growth of YC I don't have as many of those as I used to. I should try to arrange things so I have more.
  - izak30 15y ago
    Evidentially there is time to be had if you quit reading your email. I really enjoyed the talk. Thanks for coming out
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
gghootch 15y ago
When talking about the Apple killer pg states two things. 1. The next product visionary will have a great example in Jobs and Apple. 2. The next Apple probably won't start with a consumer product, but they might be able to make some consumer thingy like Jawbone does. Nest creates a great consumer thingy that's relatively cheap and it's run by an ex Apple employee. Tony Fadell might say he's not pursuing Apple's business, but is it unreasonable to think he might when the Apple pirate ship starts sinking?
- pg 15y ago
  Nest is certainly one of the leading candidates, as far as one could tell this early. A thermostat is exactly the right sort of apparently harmless thing to start with.
  - gghootch 15y ago
    What other leading candidates can you think of?
- n8agrin 15y ago
  Supposedly Nest is on Apple's blacklist. My source says any Apple employee caught even talking to a Nest employee is immediately fired. I can't verify whether or not this is true, but if it is, interesting that Apple feels that threatened.
whatsthevalue 15y ago
But maybe the ''Ahemmmms'' had the meaning of ''The naked king'' story...and nobody called him out.Otherwise great speach,enjoyed reading it
aridiculous 15y ago
I enjoyed the talk and admired his good use of clarity when talking about the problems. However, the counter to clarity is that it might be a bit too clean for the real world, and that was apparent when answering the questions about copyright at the end. I realize that pg wasn't particularly prepared to be dealing with questions unrelated to the talk, but it was the first time I've seen him not easily handle questions with grace. His responses came off as glib and eventually he had to qualify and edit his previous statements to provide somewhat of a satisfactory response. It's easy to over-believe ideas that are put forth with clarity and match your natural disposition towards clean logic and historical examples. Though pg has intriguing and useful perspectives, I encourage people to study these problems far more in-depth before forming a personal opinion. On a somewhat related note, it was alarming that pg didn't have a clear moral position when asked about his decision-making process. It's fine for the young and uninfluential to "wing it" when it comes to moral decision-making, but seems irresponsible for someone with his level of power in Silicon Valley.
- jasonjackson 15y ago
  For the morality question, if I was PG, I would've just said that my passion is to provide -you- the user/the world with what you want, so if there's no demand for it, then I won't build it. Entering into a discussion about objective morality is a dead end.
  - aridiculous 15y ago
    That's fine, but he didn't even articulate that.
- zyfo 15y ago
  > it was alarming that pg didn't have a clear moral position when asked about his decision-making process. I would prefer it if people didn't force pg to qualify his statements like a politician. Obviously he could add "of course, this is just a good idea as long as the expected utility of the humanity at large is greater with it than without it on a reasonably long time line." but it would just be an empty phrase. We need powerful people to be more open like pg, what we don't need is more people putting on a PR-mask just for the sake of seeming Responsible, Serious and Altruistic.
ChristianMarks 15y ago
This is better than TED. It's rare and inspiring to see an engaging speaker with so many good ideas in one presentation. PG's response to the music copyright critic was about right modulo a minor nit that the critic conflated trademarks with copyright and wasn't called on this. Trademarks are a social good. Copyright is ripe for reform--a long discussion. PG is absolutely right about email. If you ever had a chance to see what the inbox of someone important looks like compared with what they would like it to look like, you would know that the seemingly reasonable recommendation to consolidate email accounts with GMail is far from optimal.
snowpolar 15y ago
Hmmm...Erm...Hmmm...Erm These 2 sounds keep repeating in my ears after watching the talk.
michaelkscott 15y ago
I have been debating whether or not to say anything because I know by saying something you may have hurt feelings. And I have no obligation to tell you everything I know or think. But on reflection I have found it more honest -- honest in the older sense of "straightforward" or "direct" -- to share with you that I found the talk enjoyable and interesting. I think there are many benefits in starting small.
Shenglong 15y ago
pg, your audience had no sense of humor; don't worry, I laughed. :)
sentinel 15y ago
Hummmm...

180 points by JarekS 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

santa_boy 15y ago

Was waiting for this one :-)

opining 15y ago

Thanks for posting. Notes from this keynote were also discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3685444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3685444 PG seems down on Google from the initial statement that it may have peaked, to making fun of its search results as similar to the scientologist principle of "what's true is what's true for you" or something that makes you feel like you are being A-B tested, to Gmail being painfully slow. PG said he would pay $50/month for a good email replacement, and after just having talked about his friend at Google complaining of too much email and saying Gmail was slow, I think he was implying that Gmail needs to be replaced. So, what interests me most about this is his mention of his friend at Google. Read: http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ideas http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ide... Matt Cutts (search engine God of Google) said "I’ll stop with a story. I have a friend at Google who is really good at noticing things that annoy him. While walking from his car to his desk in the morning, he can easily find six things that irritate him because they should be improved." Matt says this is "his" friend, but is Matt Cutts PG's Google friend? This sounds very similar, and there is a hint of their relationship at the end of this article when PG got him to personally handle an issue with HN not being listed first in search results: http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul-graham-knows-how-to-scal/ http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul-graham-knows-ho... However, a better guess is probably that it is Peter Norvig, Director of Research. There are examples of their relationship around, like Peter reading a draft of his: http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355984 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355984 It's interesting that PG is pushing for someone to compete with Google though. It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas.

ma2rten 15y ago
It might also be Paul Buchheit. He also reviewed a couple of PG's essays.
- iconfinder 15y ago
  Including the last one where Paul corrected the comment about Gmail being slow.
  - opining 15y ago
    Good point. It does seem that Paul B. could be the friend. In addition, PG mentions Paul B. in several places, just a few including: http://www.paulgraham.com/13sentences.html http://www.paulgraham.com/13sentences.html http://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html http://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html If true, it's especially interesting that Paul B. was the creator and lead developer of Gmail and that he corrected PG by stating that "GMail has become painfully slow" instead of "GMail is painfully slow" thereby humorously dissociating himself from the act of having developed something slow.
pg 15y ago
It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas. No. Why would I allow myself to be used in that way?
- opining 15y ago
  My apologies. I did not mean that you were being used. More that your friend did not have the option to come out publicly criticizing Google, but you were able to. Google is in the position of target of criticism lately just as Microsoft and many other large companies are, however by referring to your conversation with your friend in the same context, you lend credibility to the notion that perhaps some of the criticism was his.
dmix 15y ago
This sounds like a bad techcrunch article.

facundo_olano 15y ago

Here's the transcript at Graham's site http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

swah 15y ago

Y U PUT NO SHOES? Really there are shoes as comfortable as those sandals...

swah 15y ago

Its interesting to listen to this after reading the article; its as I'm rereading with a laugh track.

oemera 15y ago

I don't mean to be harsh but after reading the article I couldn't listen to the "Uhhh Ehmmmm"s anymore. Was he just reading the transcript to the guys? A keynote should be without any "uhh"s and "ehmmm"s otherwise you will not get audience IMO.

kevinalexbrown 15y ago
'what HN users don't mean to be:' http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27t+mean+to+be%22&sortby=create_ts+asc http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27...
- swombat 15y ago
  "English to nerd translation": http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to-english.php http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to-engli...
Jach 15y ago
For me there seems to be a proportion of "uhhs" that I require. This talk had a lot of them, more than I'd prefer, but it wasn't horrible and the content makes up for it (as does the Q&A). The extent of the reliance on the transcript was probably the extent people rely on notecards, the "uhhs" were mostly to fill the silence of when he was glancing at it to remind him of his place. If there aren't any "uhhs" at all in a talk I think "this guy took a speaking course and is probably trying to manipulate me", if there are too many I think "this guy didn't prepare or is just a bad public speaker", but there's a right proportion that makes me think "he's sufficiently human so I'll listen to him." Of course that last thought requires a bit of double-think since a good manipulator would know this about me. Edit: of course, this is more of a description of how my subconscious works. Consciously I try my best to ignore these things and focus on the information content alone and feel like I should downvote you for letting yourself miss interesting content because of the speaker's presentation style. (Though to be fair at least you have the text version for 99% of the content.)
whatsthevalue 15y ago
Sounded like he's about take take a feace

aravindc 15y ago

This is my first time seeing and listening Paul Graham. Why is he going on ummm ummmm? It is so distracting. I don't want to be seen as critical, just a feedback.

opining 15y ago
You'd do that too if you had to present in front of a large group of Python developers. Calling them the center of the valley was a little over the top, though.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

opining 15y ago

See also the comments in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3686840 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3686840

k33n 15y ago

Listening to Paul Graham philosophizing about product ideas is like listening to product guys trying to talk finance.

zyfo 15y ago

Question for pg: There is probably an essay there, too bad I don't write them anymore (43.30 in video, regarding "moral compass outsourcing") Have you stopped writing essays? Does that mean you're shifting your focus to YC 100% or going back to work on arc again? Or are you talking about non-startup essays?

pg 15y ago
Actually I just wrote the first draft of one of the essays I said during that talk I should write. Writing essays depends on having uninterrupted blocks of time. Between kids and the growth of YC I don't have as many of those as I used to. I should try to arrange things so I have more.
- izak30 15y ago
  Evidentially there is time to be had if you quit reading your email. I really enjoyed the talk. Thanks for coming out
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]

gghootch 15y ago

When talking about the Apple killer pg states two things. 1. The next product visionary will have a great example in Jobs and Apple. 2. The next Apple probably won't start with a consumer product, but they might be able to make some consumer thingy like Jawbone does. Nest creates a great consumer thingy that's relatively cheap and it's run by an ex Apple employee. Tony Fadell might say he's not pursuing Apple's business, but is it unreasonable to think he might when the Apple pirate ship starts sinking?

pg 15y ago
Nest is certainly one of the leading candidates, as far as one could tell this early. A thermostat is exactly the right sort of apparently harmless thing to start with.
- gghootch 15y ago
  What other leading candidates can you think of?
n8agrin 15y ago
Supposedly Nest is on Apple's blacklist. My source says any Apple employee caught even talking to a Nest employee is immediately fired. I can't verify whether or not this is true, but if it is, interesting that Apple feels that threatened.

whatsthevalue 15y ago

But maybe the ''Ahemmmms'' had the meaning of ''The naked king'' story...and nobody called him out.Otherwise great speach,enjoyed reading it

aridiculous 15y ago

I enjoyed the talk and admired his good use of clarity when talking about the problems. However, the counter to clarity is that it might be a bit too clean for the real world, and that was apparent when answering the questions about copyright at the end. I realize that pg wasn't particularly prepared to be dealing with questions unrelated to the talk, but it was the first time I've seen him not easily handle questions with grace. His responses came off as glib and eventually he had to qualify and edit his previous statements to provide somewhat of a satisfactory response. It's easy to over-believe ideas that are put forth with clarity and match your natural disposition towards clean logic and historical examples. Though pg has intriguing and useful perspectives, I encourage people to study these problems far more in-depth before forming a personal opinion. On a somewhat related note, it was alarming that pg didn't have a clear moral position when asked about his decision-making process. It's fine for the young and uninfluential to "wing it" when it comes to moral decision-making, but seems irresponsible for someone with his level of power in Silicon Valley.

jasonjackson 15y ago
For the morality question, if I was PG, I would've just said that my passion is to provide -you- the user/the world with what you want, so if there's no demand for it, then I won't build it. Entering into a discussion about objective morality is a dead end.
- aridiculous 15y ago
  That's fine, but he didn't even articulate that.
zyfo 15y ago
> it was alarming that pg didn't have a clear moral position when asked about his decision-making process. I would prefer it if people didn't force pg to qualify his statements like a politician. Obviously he could add "of course, this is just a good idea as long as the expected utility of the humanity at large is greater with it than without it on a reasonably long time line." but it would just be an empty phrase. We need powerful people to be more open like pg, what we don't need is more people putting on a PR-mask just for the sake of seeming Responsible, Serious and Altruistic.

ChristianMarks 15y ago

This is better than TED. It's rare and inspiring to see an engaging speaker with so many good ideas in one presentation. PG's response to the music copyright critic was about right modulo a minor nit that the critic conflated trademarks with copyright and wasn't called on this. Trademarks are a social good. Copyright is ripe for reform--a long discussion. PG is absolutely right about email. If you ever had a chance to see what the inbox of someone important looks like compared with what they would like it to look like, you would know that the seemingly reasonable recommendation to consolidate email accounts with GMail is far from optimal.

snowpolar 15y ago

Hmmm...Erm...Hmmm...Erm These 2 sounds keep repeating in my ears after watching the talk.

michaelkscott 15y ago

I have been debating whether or not to say anything because I know by saying something you may have hurt feelings. And I have no obligation to tell you everything I know or think. But on reflection I have found it more honest -- honest in the older sense of "straightforward" or "direct" -- to share with you that I found the talk enjoyable and interesting. I think there are many benefits in starting small.

Shenglong 15y ago

pg, your audience had no sense of humor; don't worry, I laughed. :)

sentinel 15y ago

Hummmm...