8 ms·
12-year-old sues school district over Facebook profile search
- whalesalad 15y agoI hope she wins. I cannot stand the things that our government are getting away with these days. It was founded with the ideal of complete personal freedom, and now it seems as though everyone is starting to go "woah woah okay okay yeah that was fun for a while but now you're all fucked."
- electromagnetic 15y agoAgreed. The school district really doesn't have a clue how serious a moral and ethical violation it is to have access to a minor's facebook account. Not only the gross violation of right to privacy, but the fact that if the girl is updating it by her phone, she could well be geotagging her location, meaning an adult has access to this girls location/where she's going. When parents freak out over sex offenders being allowed to live in their neighbour hood near their children (when the majority of sex offenders committed offences against adults, meaning the kids should be worried about mommy getting raped, not mommy worrying about her kids), do you really want to be known as the pervert in the school board tracking all the prepubescent girls.
- melling 15y agoI think that if the founders simply wanted to say "complete personal freedom" then it would have been simpler to write that. The classic "you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater" example. You can't just say anything that you want. The real problem is that everyone thinks that if we all just use common sense, and be nice to each other, it'll be ok, but that doesn't get us very far. If some kid slanders someone else, for example, how should it be dealt with? You don't have complete freedom to say anything you want about someone else. ...I guess the short of it is that if you don't want the school to handle the problem, be very specific about how the problems should be dealt with, otherwise when my personal freedom and yours clash, we're going to have a mess. Don't just wave the flag and cry "freedom!" [Update] I got down voted immediately. Thought I might. :-) Was it the wave the flag and cry freedom part, or do people think they have complete personal freedom? Yeah, I'm trying to stick a few simple-minded people in the eye. Anyway, people really need to think beyond the simple "I don't like it when this happens..." If you can't provide the answers to a problem, someone else will do it for you.
- SoftwareMaven 15y agoIf a kid slanders somebody else, the somebody else can sue for redress in the courts (or, I don't know, talk to his/her parents. It is not the governments job to monitor its subjects "just in case". That is absurd, and thinking like that is why 12 year old girls are getting interrogated and why certain departments think it is OK to fondle citizens, young and old (yes, this case, it's "allegedly", but this is not the only case.) K-12 education is such a mess. My kids go to quite good public school, and even there, it is a joke the control they think have. Anybody know if it is a violation of the 1st Ammendment to prohibit kids from dying their hair (serious question)? As a kid who had blue hair, that prohibition drives me nuts!
- melling 15y agoI don't think that in this case they wanted to look at her account without reason. It seems like she said something someone didn't like. That someone probably printed her page and went to their parents and they went to the school? Now, I'm not saying what is right or wrong here. I'm simply asking what people think should be done. How do people want it to be handled. Also, shouldn't Facebook be deleting her account? She's only 12, and you need to legally be 13. http://www.facebook.com/help/parents http://www.facebook.com/help/parents
- SoftwareMaven 15y agoThe school never has a right to ask for those passwords. If what she wrote is public, they can see it. If what she wrote isn't public, it shouldn't matter. Email is private, period. If it takes a court order to get access "in the real world", a school official shouldn't be demanding it. If she said something about somebody else in a public way (yes, your "friends" probably count as public), the person being spoken about has multiple options: 1. Suck it up. People say mean things; get over it. (Side note: my guess is this whole case boils down to "contempt of cop", that horrible crime of not showing a person who has authority over you enough respect). Students don't check free speech at the gates and especially don't at home. 2. Contact FaceBook about a violation of its terms. FB could delete said post. I think FB's 13 year old policy is stupid (yes, the underlying law is also stupid, but FB takes the stupidity to new heights), but it is their policy. The principal could have just gotten the account nuked. 3. For a public posting, involve the parents. It is, you know, their job to raise their kid. If a parent decides they value freedom of speech over respect of authority, well, see #1 above or #4 below. 4. If the comment is truly libelous (and, remember, to prove libel you have to show harm was done[1]), you always have redress in the courts. But, again, the inequality in the relationship means the principal doesn't have to bother with that. We want adults who question their leaders, yet our schools (including, sadly, many colleges. Just look at what happened at Berkeley) do everything they can to crush any leadership questioning. Is it any surprise most adults don't care about what their leaders do? They have been trained from a very early age that they have no control over "the man". Why would that change after college? 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander#How_to_prove_libel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander#How_to_prove_libel
- mecha 15y agoI completely agree with you. It feels as if many establishments disregard these rights and try to reversely enforce their own laws. It's a common occurrence in schools due to the false notion that thrives in that environment of hierarchy always being right.
- plasma 15y agoPathetic. I'm sure the school would not have asked someone if they thought they could walk all over them. There is no way anyone could coerce me to hand something over like that (and I don't even use Facebook much!)
- antihero 15y agoYou are flown to a country you do not know of, tied to a chair and have a knife held to your balls.
- nsns 15y agoThese are certainly the first days of social networking, the law and social conventions still have a lot of catching up to do. On a different note, I find it quite ironic that Facebook forbids children under 13 from opening accounts, while encouraging behavior ("I like this!") most suitable for their age spectrum.
- xiaoma 15y agoIt's not that facebook wouldn't like the users. It's the costs and risks of trying to comply with COPPA regulations.
- flexd 15y agoHow on earth did they think this was okay? These days that might actually be the same as asking someone for their diary. Or at least if they judged you from what was written in your blog or something like that.
- dsr_ 15y agoIt's important to remember that rights are meaningless if they are not exercised and defended, and that often means uncomfortable placement of walls. Not every case will be as media-friendly as a 12 year old girl posting to Facebook that someone was mean to her. The Miranda decision that established the right to be told your rights when under arrest -- the right to remain silent and so forth -- well, Ernesto Miranda was found guilty of kidnapping and rape in the second trial. Not a great person.
- ComputerGuru 15y agoIsn't that a huge non-sequitur? What do the Miranda Rights have to do with the first half of your sentence?
- saryant 15y agoI think he's trying to say that defending our rights will sometimes mean defending bad people. Not every case will be in defense of an innocent 12-year-old, sometimes you have to stick up for rapists too.
- joedevon 15y agoInnocent 12 year old? LOL. Try being a teacher. Then read that article from the perspective of the educator and it reads completely differently.
- redridingnews 15y agoMaybe 12 year olds aren't THAT innocent, but come on. What about privacy? And as an adult, how would you feel if the boss of your boss asks for your facebook's password so they can have an eye on your boss and co-workers?
- saryant 15y agoI wasn't trying to make any judgement about the 12 year old in the article, just differentiate this situation from that surrounding the Miranda case.
- MrTibbles 15y agohow awesome is it kids who can't drive, drink, or have sex, are somehow allowed to sue people. H0ly FUcK O_o
- redridingnews 15y agoFirst of all, I don't think that's the point. Not at all. Next, kids should not be prevented to file law suits if deemed necessary (ex. sexual harassment, child abuse). And finally, according to the article, it was the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota that filed the case.
- mike-cardwell 15y ago"The district is confident that once all facts come to light, the district's conduct will be found to be reasonable and appropriate." I can't imagine what these "facts" are, but I will reserve judgement until I've heard them.
- namidark 15y agoDoesn't really matter what 'facts' they have, you can't just throw out the 4th amendment.
- mike-cardwell 15y agoAgain. I will wait to hear the facts before making the mistake of assuming that they, "threw out the 4th amendment"
- reneherse 15y agoThe end does not justify the means.
- mike-cardwell 15y agoWe do not know what the "means" were. We have only heard one side of the story.
- drhowarddrfine 15y ago12-year old girls don't sue anyone. It's the parents doing this. Period.
- electromagnetic 15y agoHow is it the parents doing this, I didn't see it written anywhere in the article that they're lawyers. The 12 year old is the plaintiff, not the parents. The lawyer may have thought she had a good enough case to hold billing, and may have even held disbursements (although more likely the parents agreed to pay for disbursements for the case).
- cbs 15y agoDo you have a message about that you're not articulating, or is this just some good 'ol pedantry?
- Shank 15y agoThat would be the ACLU taking the case on her behalf, not her parents doing the suing.
- melling 15y agoJust out of curiosity, what do people think schools, parents, etc should do about minors and Facebook? Bullying, "naughty" pics of themselves, and just simple over the top kid drama. Facebook is public. It's not your diary. You are sharing it with your hundred "closests" friends. Rush Limbaugh calls someone a slut on the radio and people are outraged. I can imagine that kids are quite rough with each other on a daily basis.
- ugh 15y agoSchools should be able to do nothing. Parents should, obviously.
- melling 15y agoNot every parent is going to watch their kid. What should a parent do when their kid shows them something "offensive" from someone else? Where is the line drawn for bullying? To me it seems like one big mess for Facebook and parents. When kids get foul with each other, what do the parents do?
- ugh 15y agoBullying is a hard problem to solve, with and without Facebook. Parents always have little control, whether it's happening on Facebook or somewhere else. Facebook has to provide its users (i.e. kids and their parents) with working tools that can prevent bullying. 'Report Abuse' links that work, for example. It should not be necessary for schools to have complete access to their students' accounts.
- rimantas 15y ago> When kids get foul with each other, what do the > parents do? Bear the responsibility for raising such a kid?
- nakkiel 15y agoI believe Facebook has features in place to let users target groups of users when posting. Perhaps School and Parents' role is to guide/teach children in our digital mess. School has no business checking people's private things though. Parents may have some rights but I'd also say children have an expectation for privacy.
- veyron 15y agoDoesn't COPPA require that Facebook users be at least 13 years old? If so, how could she have registered for Facebook in the first place?
- bphogan 15y agoI have never seen a web site that makes you prove your age to sign up. My daughter's friends all have Facebook sites. I refuse to let her. Their parents, on the other hand, allow it.
- motherfucker 15y agoThe same way I looked at porn when I wasn't 18?
- jackfoxy 15y ago>I hope she wins. I hope to see the day when every headline [subject] sues [government entity] over [grievance] parses to something other than [subject] sues taxpayers over [grievance]
- joshmlewis 15y agoSo this sort of happened to me last year while in my senior year of high school. A friend and I started a Facebook group called "Sleeping students of GHS" and we had people send in pictures to an email address I created and we'd upload them to the group page. Which was quite interesting because we couldn't be held responsible for actually taking the pictures. Well the group went viral in a matter of a few days, first a hundred, then a few hundred, then 2-3k. And in a relatively small southern town, around 13k people, that's a pretty big deal. It was crazy. I felt like Julian Assange for a couple weeks. Nervously posting things and worried about the school big dogs hunting me down. (of course this wasn't anything like WL, but the same idea.) Parents were starting to be like, "Wait, why are these students sleeping? What are the teachers doing about this?" and this in turn caused a big uproar in the school. Schools hate bad publicity. The next day I get called into the office and a couple assistant principals and a police officer were like, "Do you have permission from all these students parents to upload these pictures?" and I said, "No. I didn't think you needed it." They in turn told me that the school was liable for a law suit, yada yada, and that I need to delete it. They had me login to my account in front of them and delete it. THIS WAS MY BIGGEST MISTAKE. Damn it. I was furious with myself afterwards. Lesson learned I suppose. It didn't take long for an outsider to the school to approach me and make another joint account. That way if it's outside the school they can't do anything. At this point local news agencies were calling me and emailing me asking to interview. It was on the front page of newspapers. I learned that it is indeed not illegal to take pictures of minors in a public place and the school was just BS'ing me to get me to delete it. I was a little scared in that office. I was in contact with the ACLU and a digital rights lawyer in San Francisco, just in case they issued any kind of punishment toward me. It went on for a couple more weeks, we even had tshirts made, and then bam, Facebook shuts it down. No notice, no warning, just bam. We get an email saying "Your page was against our ToS, sorry" and that was that. It all ended in a haze. To this day I wonder why Facebook shut it down. I tried contacting them but to no avail.
- joshmlewis 15y agoAlso, at the same school I mentioned before, later in the year they started cracking down on Facebook. Teachers were getting reprimanded for being friends with students. Students were getting suspended and banned from the prom because they posted a rant about a teacher or worker at the school. It was ridiculous.
- meenriquez 15y agoThis happened to a page that my former classmates made too. It was made up of pictures of people in the community that they think weren't helping. It didn't get much popularity though. But it got shut down by facebook too. They later on found out that several people reported them using the "report/block" button. These people are relatives of the people that they posted funny topics about. They couldn't do anything about it. On a related note, maybe the people who deserve to be reported are the likes of Justin Bieber. See Bieber tweets a phone number, except the last digit. Real people driven mad http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3690118 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3690118