4 ms·

More like: Him: "Facebook's ToS classifies totally cool, normal opinions as hate speech" Them: "Give us examples!" Him: <literal hate speech> Them: DOWNVOTE

by feoren 3y ago

brightlancer 3y ago
[flagged]
- hoten 3y ago
  The IQ thing is hardly the same as how the OP framed it.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > The IQ thing is hardly the same as how the OP framed it. It's _exactly_ how they framed it: "Saying that blacks have a lower average IQ than other races, (although this is not a political opinion but a fact, still)." We need to stop jumping up and crying Racism! anytime someone writes an objective fact that doesn't include the caveat "but maybe white supremacy".
- feoren 3y ago
  > MTF "transwomen" are not women. That's not an opinion, it's biological fact ... they never had a uterus or other female sex organs and almost zero had a XX chromosome A favorite technique of bad-faith arguers and spreaders of disinformation is to take a very narrow definition a word (often overly narrow), derive some conclusion about it, and then apply that conclusion to a much broader definition of that word. You've started by picking a definition of "biological women" that sounds somewhat reasonable (but certainly not completely agreed upon, especially regarding "other female sex organs"), and then used that to justify the statement "MTF 'transwomen' are not women.". But that 2nd use of the word "women" is very different. Nobody who posts that on Twitter really means "MTF trans women do not have uteruses and most do not have XX chromosomes". Nobody is confused on this point. They mean "MTF trans women are not 'real women', and therefore it's OK to mistreat them." I think you know this. > the _group_ of folks who select "Black" or similar has a lower median on IQ tests I will accept this statement exactly as stated as being true, but that's not how you're using it. This statement does not come unburdened with a ton of other (false) assumptions behind it. The most obvious one is that you seem to think this statement justifies the claim "blacks have a lower average IQ than other races" -- No! That is a completely different claim. Note the word "race" here. That statement is talking about "blacks as a race", really meaning "genetic, innate features of humans belonging to the race 'black'." Even the existence of such a race is reasonable to dispute, but the biggest problem is going from a correlation between IQ scores and specific group of people to a causation about why that group of people has low IQ scores (i.e. because of their race). That is not true, and has been basically totally debunked. But look at how many more words it took me to address the statements, compared to making them in the first place. It was an extremely subtle change from "group that checks 'black'" to "race", yet the latter very clearly implies innate features while the former does not. It's a one-sided fight, and censorship is a perfectly reasonable tool to even the odds. There are very subtle ways that such "facts" can be completely misused, misattributed, and misinterpreted to support hatred. That (often intentional) misuse, misattribution, and misinterpretation is hate speech.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > A favorite technique of bad-faith arguers I'm not arguing in bad faith. > Nobody who posts that on Twitter really means "MTF trans women do not have uteruses and most do not have XX chromosomes". Yes they do. I'm arguing that now. > I will accept this statement exactly as stated as being true, but that's not how you're using it. Of course that's how I'm using it. > But look at how many more words it took me to address the statements, Of course, because you took everything I wrote, responded "You mean the opposite" and went from there. Try reading what I wrote rather than what your bigotries tell you I wrote.
  - nonning 3y ago
    That is quite a fringe view though. To the vast majority of people worldwide, it's an entirely obvious fact that women are female, and man are male. It's true that some men desire to be women, and some women want to be men. But such yearning doesn't change one's material biological reality.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  That is not a fact. Those studies have all been debunked, pseudo-science, that only get quoted in context like this when someone wants to justify racism. Hey, I just read a study that Republicans have a lower IQ. That is documented fact. Not even joking, there are studies that show this, also easier to fool, less able to deal with change.

More like: Him: "Facebook's ToS classifies totally cool, normal opinions as hate speech" Them: "Give us examples!" Him: <literal hate speech> Them: DOWNVOTE

by feoren 3y ago

More like: Him: "Facebook's ToS classifies totally cool, normal opinions as hate speech" Them: "Give us examples!" Him: <literal hate speech> Them: DOWNVOTE

brightlancer 3y ago

[flagged]

hoten 3y ago
The IQ thing is hardly the same as how the OP framed it.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > The IQ thing is hardly the same as how the OP framed it. It's _exactly_ how they framed it: "Saying that blacks have a lower average IQ than other races, (although this is not a political opinion but a fact, still)." We need to stop jumping up and crying Racism! anytime someone writes an objective fact that doesn't include the caveat "but maybe white supremacy".
feoren 3y ago
> MTF "transwomen" are not women. That's not an opinion, it's biological fact ... they never had a uterus or other female sex organs and almost zero had a XX chromosome A favorite technique of bad-faith arguers and spreaders of disinformation is to take a very narrow definition a word (often overly narrow), derive some conclusion about it, and then apply that conclusion to a much broader definition of that word. You've started by picking a definition of "biological women" that sounds somewhat reasonable (but certainly not completely agreed upon, especially regarding "other female sex organs"), and then used that to justify the statement "MTF 'transwomen' are not women.". But that 2nd use of the word "women" is very different. Nobody who posts that on Twitter really means "MTF trans women do not have uteruses and most do not have XX chromosomes". Nobody is confused on this point. They mean "MTF trans women are not 'real women', and therefore it's OK to mistreat them." I think you know this. > the _group_ of folks who select "Black" or similar has a lower median on IQ tests I will accept this statement exactly as stated as being true, but that's not how you're using it. This statement does not come unburdened with a ton of other (false) assumptions behind it. The most obvious one is that you seem to think this statement justifies the claim "blacks have a lower average IQ than other races" -- No! That is a completely different claim. Note the word "race" here. That statement is talking about "blacks as a race", really meaning "genetic, innate features of humans belonging to the race 'black'." Even the existence of such a race is reasonable to dispute, but the biggest problem is going from a correlation between IQ scores and specific group of people to a causation about why that group of people has low IQ scores (i.e. because of their race). That is not true, and has been basically totally debunked. But look at how many more words it took me to address the statements, compared to making them in the first place. It was an extremely subtle change from "group that checks 'black'" to "race", yet the latter very clearly implies innate features while the former does not. It's a one-sided fight, and censorship is a perfectly reasonable tool to even the odds. There are very subtle ways that such "facts" can be completely misused, misattributed, and misinterpreted to support hatred. That (often intentional) misuse, misattribution, and misinterpretation is hate speech.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > A favorite technique of bad-faith arguers I'm not arguing in bad faith. > Nobody who posts that on Twitter really means "MTF trans women do not have uteruses and most do not have XX chromosomes". Yes they do. I'm arguing that now. > I will accept this statement exactly as stated as being true, but that's not how you're using it. Of course that's how I'm using it. > But look at how many more words it took me to address the statements, Of course, because you took everything I wrote, responded "You mean the opposite" and went from there. Try reading what I wrote rather than what your bigotries tell you I wrote.
- nonning 3y ago
  That is quite a fringe view though. To the vast majority of people worldwide, it's an entirely obvious fact that women are female, and man are male. It's true that some men desire to be women, and some women want to be men. But such yearning doesn't change one's material biological reality.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
That is not a fact. Those studies have all been debunked, pseudo-science, that only get quoted in context like this when someone wants to justify racism. Hey, I just read a study that Republicans have a lower IQ. That is documented fact. Not even joking, there are studies that show this, also easier to fool, less able to deal with change.