3 ms·

Sorry are you saying rights don’t matter if it makes coppers uncomfortable? Sounds like approval of gang/crook intimidation behaviors from public servants

dangus 3y ago
It doesn’t sound like the cops as described in the scenario did anything illegal. They just asked a bunch of questions. It sounds like voakbasta was free to leave at any time. voakbasta just didn’t like the fact that people reacted to him doing weird but legal stuff outside of social norms. A major argument that second amendment originalists make for the need for personal firearms is to provide personal protection, but a police station is an area that is already protected by law officers who are armed, so there’s no reason to open carry there. It’s like bringing an air conditioner to a hockey rink.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  I personally feel much less safe around police and I know many who feel the same or experienced unjust harassment and violence from them, especially nypd and including inside their stations. I know people who were tortured by county jail guards, ostensibly there for protection, while holding them awaiting trial (including later being proven innocent). I don’t agree that when encountering police that everyone should surrender or otherwise dispose of their firearms. I think that would make police even more aggressive at scale. Police are adversarial, not protective for common folk. I would advocate for the opposite - police should not be allowed to carry, and I think they are weirdos for doing so
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    So do you think carrying a gun around the NYPD would make you more safe?
- 0ct4via 3y ago
  That "it sounds like" assumption is holding a whole lot of weight there, buddy. You don't know that they were free to leave, and the fact that you think it's "weird" for someone to open carry suggests implicit bias demonstrated by your further comments. It's nothing about "originalists" either -- whether for the exercise of constitutional rights, their own desire, or protection, if GP chose to open carry, and it's legal to do so, they shouldn't be randomly interrogated about it -- especially when making a routine enquiry. You're also forgetting that plenty officers have both assaulted and used their arms against peaceful citizens, including in police custody and police stations, so "there's no reason to open carry there" doesn't apply -- you don't know if GP was simply walking home and went in to get this report copy on the way -- more ridiculous analogies don't make an actual argument, you know. Going back to your initial "sound like," if police are using tactics they've learned to coax information out from suspect and display authority and force, it could absolutely be illegal, ranging from harassment to intimidation -- short of wearing a t-shirt saying "kill all cops" or waving their firearm around, there's no reasonable circumstance why they should be challenged like that, purely for open carrying -- as I said to you before, if they CCW'd there wouldn't even be an argument, so passing judgement on GP because of your own clear anti-gun bias is transparent as heck.
  - dangus 3y ago
    Yes, I am biased against people who open carry and I think they are weirdos. I also think the second amendment should be repealed. I can believe that widespread ownership and carrying of guns is dangerous and weird while at the same time acknowledging that police commonly abuse power and need more oversight. The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. Also, I’m just going off of the story. I’m sure if the person in the story was detained or arrested they would have mentioned it.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > You're also forgetting that plenty officers have both assaulted and used their arms against peaceful citizens, including in police custody and police stations, So realistically, how do you think it’s going to work out if you used a gun in a police station against a police officer for self defense? How do you think it’s going to work anywhere if you used your gun against a police officer? That’s just like all of the yokels who have guns to protect themselves against the federal government when even a small town SWAT team could take them out let alone the FBI.
- dylan604 3y ago
  >It’s like bringing an air conditioner to a hockey rink. location location location. a hockey rink in texas needs a whole heckofalotof AC. otherwise, it's just a really big wading pool
  - dangus 3y ago
    I’m obviously talking about a hockey rink that is already cooled.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      and i'm making an obviously ridiculous comment about your obviously ridiculous comparison
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
StrictDabbler 3y ago
It's amazing how people keep looking past the question. I am saying that a citizen walking into a police station with a gun is obviously in more danger than a person who goes in without a gun. Absolutely that's intimidating. It's not about rights. I just don't trust the police enough to open-carry into a police station. Why take that risk? What do you gain? Is it just capital-F "Freedom"?
scarface_74 3y ago
Well, I might not think it’s right that when I jump off a 50 story building that I’m likely to die. Whether it’s “my right” as a Black guy to legally carry a weapon into my local police station in a county that two decades ago was a famous “sundown town” and is still less than 5% Black, I’m not willing to get shot based on my principals and then the police just lie about it.
- Teever 3y ago
  I think it's note worthy that you can go into previously sundown towns (with or without a gun) because others were willing to take that chance.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Actually, it wasn’t because other Black people moved in. It was because builders took advantage of cheap land. Built houses and younger White professionals moved in from other parts of metro Atlanta and out of the state and overwhelmed the more backward looking people. When we walked into the community, the builder could care less what color we were as long as our credit was good and we had the down payment to get our house built - in 2016 a 3200 square foot house for $335K. By the way, it was really a famous sundown town… https://www.oprah.com/own-oprahshow/oprah-ventures-into-forsyth-county-video https://www.oprah.com/own-oprahshow/oprah-ventures-into-fors...

dangus 3y ago

It doesn’t sound like the cops as described in the scenario did anything illegal. They just asked a bunch of questions. It sounds like voakbasta was free to leave at any time. voakbasta just didn’t like the fact that people reacted to him doing weird but legal stuff outside of social norms. A major argument that second amendment originalists make for the need for personal firearms is to provide personal protection, but a police station is an area that is already protected by law officers who are armed, so there’s no reason to open carry there. It’s like bringing an air conditioner to a hockey rink.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
I personally feel much less safe around police and I know many who feel the same or experienced unjust harassment and violence from them, especially nypd and including inside their stations. I know people who were tortured by county jail guards, ostensibly there for protection, while holding them awaiting trial (including later being proven innocent). I don’t agree that when encountering police that everyone should surrender or otherwise dispose of their firearms. I think that would make police even more aggressive at scale. Police are adversarial, not protective for common folk. I would advocate for the opposite - police should not be allowed to carry, and I think they are weirdos for doing so
- scarface_74 3y ago
  So do you think carrying a gun around the NYPD would make you more safe?
0ct4via 3y ago
That "it sounds like" assumption is holding a whole lot of weight there, buddy. You don't know that they were free to leave, and the fact that you think it's "weird" for someone to open carry suggests implicit bias demonstrated by your further comments. It's nothing about "originalists" either -- whether for the exercise of constitutional rights, their own desire, or protection, if GP chose to open carry, and it's legal to do so, they shouldn't be randomly interrogated about it -- especially when making a routine enquiry. You're also forgetting that plenty officers have both assaulted and used their arms against peaceful citizens, including in police custody and police stations, so "there's no reason to open carry there" doesn't apply -- you don't know if GP was simply walking home and went in to get this report copy on the way -- more ridiculous analogies don't make an actual argument, you know. Going back to your initial "sound like," if police are using tactics they've learned to coax information out from suspect and display authority and force, it could absolutely be illegal, ranging from harassment to intimidation -- short of wearing a t-shirt saying "kill all cops" or waving their firearm around, there's no reasonable circumstance why they should be challenged like that, purely for open carrying -- as I said to you before, if they CCW'd there wouldn't even be an argument, so passing judgement on GP because of your own clear anti-gun bias is transparent as heck.
- dangus 3y ago
  Yes, I am biased against people who open carry and I think they are weirdos. I also think the second amendment should be repealed. I can believe that widespread ownership and carrying of guns is dangerous and weird while at the same time acknowledging that police commonly abuse power and need more oversight. The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. Also, I’m just going off of the story. I’m sure if the person in the story was detained or arrested they would have mentioned it.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > You're also forgetting that plenty officers have both assaulted and used their arms against peaceful citizens, including in police custody and police stations, So realistically, how do you think it’s going to work out if you used a gun in a police station against a police officer for self defense? How do you think it’s going to work anywhere if you used your gun against a police officer? That’s just like all of the yokels who have guns to protect themselves against the federal government when even a small town SWAT team could take them out let alone the FBI.
dylan604 3y ago
>It’s like bringing an air conditioner to a hockey rink. location location location. a hockey rink in texas needs a whole heckofalotof AC. otherwise, it's just a really big wading pool
- dangus 3y ago
  I’m obviously talking about a hockey rink that is already cooled.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    and i'm making an obviously ridiculous comment about your obviously ridiculous comparison
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

StrictDabbler 3y ago

It's amazing how people keep looking past the question. I am saying that a citizen walking into a police station with a gun is obviously in more danger than a person who goes in without a gun. Absolutely that's intimidating. It's not about rights. I just don't trust the police enough to open-carry into a police station. Why take that risk? What do you gain? Is it just capital-F "Freedom"?

scarface_74 3y ago

Well, I might not think it’s right that when I jump off a 50 story building that I’m likely to die. Whether it’s “my right” as a Black guy to legally carry a weapon into my local police station in a county that two decades ago was a famous “sundown town” and is still less than 5% Black, I’m not willing to get shot based on my principals and then the police just lie about it.

Teever 3y ago
I think it's note worthy that you can go into previously sundown towns (with or without a gun) because others were willing to take that chance.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Actually, it wasn’t because other Black people moved in. It was because builders took advantage of cheap land. Built houses and younger White professionals moved in from other parts of metro Atlanta and out of the state and overwhelmed the more backward looking people. When we walked into the community, the builder could care less what color we were as long as our credit was good and we had the down payment to get our house built - in 2016 a 3200 square foot house for $335K. By the way, it was really a famous sundown town… https://www.oprah.com/own-oprahshow/oprah-ventures-into-forsyth-county-video https://www.oprah.com/own-oprahshow/oprah-ventures-into-fors...