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I would have thought "actual conservatism" is more concerned about size of the government or balanced budgets than about peoples' skin color or their genitalia,

I would have thought "actual conservatism" is more concerned about size of the government or balanced budgets than about peoples' skin color or their genitalia, but apparently that's a mistake I keep making.

tivert 3y ago
> I would have thought "actual conservatism" is more concerned about size of the government or balanced budgets than about peoples' skin color or their genitalia, but apparently that's a mistake I keep making. Yes, it's a pretty ignorant mistake to understand "actual conservatism" solely as fiscal conservatism. I mean, it's only one of the axes on those dumb 2-dimensional political charts that get passed around all the time. Social conservatism exists, and it's the difference between libertarians and the people who are usually called conservative.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  It's perhaps that I've never really understood why "conservatism" means austere, balanced budgets and "conservatism" means bathroom police. I don't really get the underlying connection I suppose. I guess I've always seen "true conservatives" as the wealthy elite who pair their fiscal policy with whatever social issues they don't care about (basically any of them) that will drive votes for them. The quintessential example would be Mitt Romney - his position on abortion evolved through the years, but his position on tax cuts for the rich has never waivered.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > It's perhaps that I've never really understood why "conservatism" means austere, balanced budgets and "conservatism" means bathroom police. I don't really get the underlying connection I suppose. "Conservative" has the same root as "conserve," and I think that goes a long way towards explaining the latter "bathroom police" (e.g. conserve the traditional understanding an social convention). IMHO, the former "austere, balanced budgets" is harder to explain, but (in the American context, at least), I suspect that started as "conserving" the policies from before the New Deal, when taxes were less and the government was much smaller (relative to the rest of the country). But at a certain point, it just means what it's used to mean, and there's no sense trying too hard to derive it from first principles.
mindslight 3y ago
The mistake that keeps getting made is using "conservative" as a synonym for "Republican". The Republican party used to be the conservative party, generally trusting in institutions and gradual change. They trusted in institutions so much that they supported the Iraq War because the status quo power structure told them it needed to be done. There is nothing conservative about the current Republican party. Basing your vision of society on how you imagine things were 70 years ago is not conservative - rather it entails drastic radical change. Essentially the Republican party is now better described as populist reactionaries (Moldbug's own term), who gave up on conservatism because they got frustrated from things changing at all. With how things currently are, the Democratic party is more appropriately referred to as the conservative party. Despite having its own contingents of extremists pulling in various directions, they're essentially still being kept in check by the status quo power structure - for better and for worse.

tivert 3y ago

> I would have thought "actual conservatism" is more concerned about size of the government or balanced budgets than about peoples' skin color or their genitalia, but apparently that's a mistake I keep making. Yes, it's a pretty ignorant mistake to understand "actual conservatism" solely as fiscal conservatism. I mean, it's only one of the axes on those dumb 2-dimensional political charts that get passed around all the time. Social conservatism exists, and it's the difference between libertarians and the people who are usually called conservative.

hotpotamus 3y ago
It's perhaps that I've never really understood why "conservatism" means austere, balanced budgets and "conservatism" means bathroom police. I don't really get the underlying connection I suppose. I guess I've always seen "true conservatives" as the wealthy elite who pair their fiscal policy with whatever social issues they don't care about (basically any of them) that will drive votes for them. The quintessential example would be Mitt Romney - his position on abortion evolved through the years, but his position on tax cuts for the rich has never waivered.
- tivert 3y ago
  > It's perhaps that I've never really understood why "conservatism" means austere, balanced budgets and "conservatism" means bathroom police. I don't really get the underlying connection I suppose. "Conservative" has the same root as "conserve," and I think that goes a long way towards explaining the latter "bathroom police" (e.g. conserve the traditional understanding an social convention). IMHO, the former "austere, balanced budgets" is harder to explain, but (in the American context, at least), I suspect that started as "conserving" the policies from before the New Deal, when taxes were less and the government was much smaller (relative to the rest of the country). But at a certain point, it just means what it's used to mean, and there's no sense trying too hard to derive it from first principles.

mindslight 3y ago

The mistake that keeps getting made is using "conservative" as a synonym for "Republican". The Republican party used to be the conservative party, generally trusting in institutions and gradual change. They trusted in institutions so much that they supported the Iraq War because the status quo power structure told them it needed to be done. There is nothing conservative about the current Republican party. Basing your vision of society on how you imagine things were 70 years ago is not conservative - rather it entails drastic radical change. Essentially the Republican party is now better described as populist reactionaries (Moldbug's own term), who gave up on conservatism because they got frustrated from things changing at all. With how things currently are, the Democratic party is more appropriately referred to as the conservative party. Despite having its own contingents of extremists pulling in various directions, they're essentially still being kept in check by the status quo power structure - for better and for worse.