4 ms·

A few years ago, I applied to a senior Windows dev position. As I recall, they needed someone primarily to port existing software. One of the first interview

A few years ago, I applied to a senior Windows dev position. As I recall, they needed someone primarily to port existing software. One of the first interview questions was about how I would optimize shell sort for some particular edge case. The interviewer did not appear to have any papers with her that contained shell sort. I don't know if she thought I would remember it (last time I implemented it was high school), or what. In months of sporadic interviewing, I don't recall being asked a single question relevant to Windows development, engineering strategies, how I comment my checkins, or any of a million other things which seem much more vital to me. Every interview centered on puzzles and algorithms. Every job listing was for Windows/C++ with various platform-specific technology requirements that I fit. Personally, I think a lot of employers just like to have perpetual job openings. It makes the company look good. Also, I think that a very, very large percentage of the "screening" is really just to provide justification to the subconscious decision that was made within moments. There's a reason that Silicon Valley is almost entirely white, male, and under 40, and it has nothing to do with technical aptitude.

grannyg00se 15y ago
"There's a reason that Silicon Valley is almost entirely white, male, and under 40, and it has nothing to do with technical aptitude." Ouch....That's a very damning statement. I'm not in a position to comment on the truth of it - all I can say is that I hope you're wrong.
- gruseom 15y ago
  Silicon Valley is almost entirely white That's far from the case.
  - angelbob 15y ago
    In small startups it's white, Indian and Asian. There are occasional women but less frequently as programmers. Women are more common as designers and sometimes sysadmins, though. Bigger companies don't look like this. They look more like big companies all over.
    - akkartik 15y ago
      I work at Google, and while you can level a lot of criticisms at it, this is not one of them. Half the employees I see around Mountain View are asians or indians. (I am indian.)
eshvk 15y ago
While, I'd like to agree with most of what you said. At least one of the parameters in the last statement you made can be statistically invalidated: Have you not seen the multitude of brown men in programming?
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  Well, honestly, no, I haven't. I've heard second-hand reports of some large companies that seemed to hire an amazing number of Indians, but I've personally worked almost entirely with white males (with a few East Asians and the odd female thrown in). Also, I think it might be pretty much the same thing: Indian workers might be given a pass because they're "cheap" (i.e. decision made based on instant impression and personal biases). That shouldn't be happening, H1-B's and minorities should earn the same as locals, but it seems common knowledge that it's true.
  - eshvk 15y ago
    I think by law H1-B's are supposed to be paid the same as locals (so as not to undercut them).
kirillzubovsky 15y ago
"I think that a very, very large percentage of the 'screening' is really just to provide justification to the subconscious decision that was made within moments." - You are correct, but that's not because companies really want to drag you through these justifications, rather because (I believe) many are required to do so by law.
pavanky 15y ago
Boy, are you wrong! http://research.fhda.edu/Planning/2010-20%20EMP%20Demographics%20Scan.pdf http://research.fhda.edu/Planning/2010-20%20EMP%20Demographi...
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  Er. Unless I missed something, you seem to have posted a link about population demographics. I lived in Oakland for five years, among a considerable number of black people. San Francisco, just a few miles away, has a sizable (but shrinking) black population. How many blacks do you suppose I worked with in tech? (It's two, if you're wondering, and one came to the company from D.C.) Local demographic isn't very well correlated with professional employment, particularly in tech.
  - pavanky 15y ago
    If you are going to go anecdotal, here is one from me too. All Indians that I know who reside in / near Silicon valley are programmers, software engineers, computer scientists. There are dozens, if not hundreds of startups that have been founded / co-founded by non white people in the valley. There may be sweatshops exploting H1-Bs, but that is corporate greed rather than a race issue. So if you are going to say the valley has a race problem, then one of the following things is probably true 1) You only see black and white 2) You work / have worked in some nasty institutions 3) You want to point out that there is a bias against African Americans. I hope you were referring to #3
smsm42 15y ago
"There's a reason that Silicon Valley is almost entirely white, male, and under 40, and it has nothing to do with technical aptitude." Your Silicon Valley must be very different from one I had the opportunity to observe.

grannyg00se 15y ago

"There's a reason that Silicon Valley is almost entirely white, male, and under 40, and it has nothing to do with technical aptitude." Ouch....That's a very damning statement. I'm not in a position to comment on the truth of it - all I can say is that I hope you're wrong.

gruseom 15y ago
Silicon Valley is almost entirely white That's far from the case.
- angelbob 15y ago
  In small startups it's white, Indian and Asian. There are occasional women but less frequently as programmers. Women are more common as designers and sometimes sysadmins, though. Bigger companies don't look like this. They look more like big companies all over.
  - akkartik 15y ago
    I work at Google, and while you can level a lot of criticisms at it, this is not one of them. Half the employees I see around Mountain View are asians or indians. (I am indian.)

eshvk 15y ago

While, I'd like to agree with most of what you said. At least one of the parameters in the last statement you made can be statistically invalidated: Have you not seen the multitude of brown men in programming?

georgieporgie 15y ago
Well, honestly, no, I haven't. I've heard second-hand reports of some large companies that seemed to hire an amazing number of Indians, but I've personally worked almost entirely with white males (with a few East Asians and the odd female thrown in). Also, I think it might be pretty much the same thing: Indian workers might be given a pass because they're "cheap" (i.e. decision made based on instant impression and personal biases). That shouldn't be happening, H1-B's and minorities should earn the same as locals, but it seems common knowledge that it's true.
- eshvk 15y ago
  I think by law H1-B's are supposed to be paid the same as locals (so as not to undercut them).

kirillzubovsky 15y ago

"I think that a very, very large percentage of the 'screening' is really just to provide justification to the subconscious decision that was made within moments." - You are correct, but that's not because companies really want to drag you through these justifications, rather because (I believe) many are required to do so by law.

pavanky 15y ago

Boy, are you wrong! http://research.fhda.edu/Planning/2010-20%20EMP%20Demographics%20Scan.pdf http://research.fhda.edu/Planning/2010-20%20EMP%20Demographi...

georgieporgie 15y ago
Er. Unless I missed something, you seem to have posted a link about population demographics. I lived in Oakland for five years, among a considerable number of black people. San Francisco, just a few miles away, has a sizable (but shrinking) black population. How many blacks do you suppose I worked with in tech? (It's two, if you're wondering, and one came to the company from D.C.) Local demographic isn't very well correlated with professional employment, particularly in tech.
- pavanky 15y ago
  If you are going to go anecdotal, here is one from me too. All Indians that I know who reside in / near Silicon valley are programmers, software engineers, computer scientists. There are dozens, if not hundreds of startups that have been founded / co-founded by non white people in the valley. There may be sweatshops exploting H1-Bs, but that is corporate greed rather than a race issue. So if you are going to say the valley has a race problem, then one of the following things is probably true 1) You only see black and white 2) You work / have worked in some nasty institutions 3) You want to point out that there is a bias against African Americans. I hope you were referring to #3

smsm42 15y ago

"There's a reason that Silicon Valley is almost entirely white, male, and under 40, and it has nothing to do with technical aptitude." Your Silicon Valley must be very different from one I had the opportunity to observe.