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If that's true, then it may be a matter of lingering perception. As an ICE car owner who lives in LA, I see plenty of charging stations, but not necessarily whe

If that's true, then it may be a matter of lingering perception. As an ICE car owner who lives in LA, I see plenty of charging stations, but not necessarily when I go on drives of hundreds of miles outside the city. Of course, I may be biased given that I don't need to pay active attention to vehicle chargers. But, for me, it would be a deal breaker if I couldn't be confident that my car could still be fuelled up in Bumf*k, Nowhere.

vel0city 3y ago
The majority of people never fuel in Bumf*k, Nowhere though, and that's my point. I definitely understand though that EVs don't currently cover everyone's use cases, and I'm not entirely certain they'll cover everyone's needs in the end. But most people are pretty bad about actually thinking about what they actually need, and many car buyers aren't buying based on their realistic uses.
gonehome 3y ago
They're there if you need them - not always extremely visible though if you're not driving to one (can see the map here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger). If you got a Tesla you'd get a better sense for how many superchargers there are. What you're saying is relevant though and why until recently I didn't really consider non-Tesla EVs an option to recommend if it was your only car (though now that Tesla has pivoted to opening up the superchargers to other car companies this is less of an issue).
- ravenstine 3y ago
  That's very impressive. I was totally unaware to the extent of where chargers have been placed. There's even a supercharger located in Green River, UT, which was exactly the kind of place I was picturing in my head.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    There's a lot more chargers than people realize. A ton have been added in just the last year. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&show_map=true https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/an...
  - gonehome 3y ago
    Yeah - it's pretty wild, Tesla really committed to this a decade ago and has been chipping away at it since, the investment paid off. Even better, strategically Tesla created the "NACS" or North American Charging Standard which is a clever name for their far superior Tesla charger. They also pivoted from the superchargers being an exclusive reason to buy a Tesla to licensing them for other EVs - now Ford is onboard, Electrify America is switching to NACS, GM too. They pulled off this switch perfectly in a way most companies fail to do (ex: blackberry bbm) and as a result their investment in these will remain dominant and everyone will be unified around a superior standard (the EU charging standard CCS plug is a committee designed monster that's worse categorically). They're also continuing to expand. I love manual transmission sports cars, but EVs today are just superior for regular use and Teslas are the best option for most people (especially when considering their lower cost), putting subjective opinions about their mercurial leader aside. There's a reason the Model Y was the best selling car in 2023 Q1 across all categories globally [0]. HN has historically been poor at objectively evaluating this sort of thing especially about Tesla. [0]: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldwide-in-q1-the-tesla-model-y/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Model%20Y%20was,(h%2Ft%20Motor1) https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldw....
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Can you explain why other manufacturers switching to NACS is advantageous to Tesla? Are they collecting fees or is there some reason bp or Shell or Exxon couldn’t just add NACS chargers to all their real estate and steal share from Superchargers? I have yet to see any explanation as to how the switch to NACS is actually good for Tesla, other than testimony to the standard design being better than CCS?
      - gonehome 3y ago
        It’s licensed access iirc so they’re getting some payment for it (which they deserve for their investment in building it out despite the odds). They also charge a higher rate to non-Tesla EVs. The other benefit is if they continued to refuse access they could have ended up like blackberry. The other companies would have adopted the CCS standard and (eventually) would have a competitive network. Then what was once a Tesla advantage would become more of a liability as the transition to EVs gets more complete. Few companies make this strategic shift at the right time imo and I think Tesla did. By leveraging their advantage now it’s a win win.
flextheruler 3y ago
Anyone who thinks the utility of an EV is identical to an ICE car in the US is deluding themselves or never gets out of town. I’ll probably take 10 long car trips a year often for camping but sometimes visiting friends. I know that most of the areas I’m driving through when I go east do not have the infrastructure at all and even if they do they’re still a hassle to use and add a bunch of time to a long drive. My mom had an EV so I have experience with range anxiety and the inconveniences of not running the AC, etc. It’s a bad purchase in my opinion much better to get a hybrid
- vel0city 3y ago
  > or never gets out of town. Or they just don't road trip when they get out of town, or "getting out of town" to them is within 100mi or so, or the corridors where they do tend to travel is well served with chargers, etc. I don't know about you, but I don't usually tend to pack my car with me when I go on an airplane. Maybe you do?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

vel0city 3y ago

The majority of people never fuel in Bumf*k, Nowhere though, and that's my point. I definitely understand though that EVs don't currently cover everyone's use cases, and I'm not entirely certain they'll cover everyone's needs in the end. But most people are pretty bad about actually thinking about what they actually need, and many car buyers aren't buying based on their realistic uses.

gonehome 3y ago

They're there if you need them - not always extremely visible though if you're not driving to one (can see the map here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger). If you got a Tesla you'd get a better sense for how many superchargers there are. What you're saying is relevant though and why until recently I didn't really consider non-Tesla EVs an option to recommend if it was your only car (though now that Tesla has pivoted to opening up the superchargers to other car companies this is less of an issue).

ravenstine 3y ago
That's very impressive. I was totally unaware to the extent of where chargers have been placed. There's even a supercharger located in Green River, UT, which was exactly the kind of place I was picturing in my head.
- vel0city 3y ago
  There's a lot more chargers than people realize. A ton have been added in just the last year. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&show_map=true https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/an...
- gonehome 3y ago
  Yeah - it's pretty wild, Tesla really committed to this a decade ago and has been chipping away at it since, the investment paid off. Even better, strategically Tesla created the "NACS" or North American Charging Standard which is a clever name for their far superior Tesla charger. They also pivoted from the superchargers being an exclusive reason to buy a Tesla to licensing them for other EVs - now Ford is onboard, Electrify America is switching to NACS, GM too. They pulled off this switch perfectly in a way most companies fail to do (ex: blackberry bbm) and as a result their investment in these will remain dominant and everyone will be unified around a superior standard (the EU charging standard CCS plug is a committee designed monster that's worse categorically). They're also continuing to expand. I love manual transmission sports cars, but EVs today are just superior for regular use and Teslas are the best option for most people (especially when considering their lower cost), putting subjective opinions about their mercurial leader aside. There's a reason the Model Y was the best selling car in 2023 Q1 across all categories globally [0]. HN has historically been poor at objectively evaluating this sort of thing especially about Tesla. [0]: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldwide-in-q1-the-tesla-model-y/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Model%20Y%20was,(h%2Ft%20Motor1) https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldw....
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Can you explain why other manufacturers switching to NACS is advantageous to Tesla? Are they collecting fees or is there some reason bp or Shell or Exxon couldn’t just add NACS chargers to all their real estate and steal share from Superchargers? I have yet to see any explanation as to how the switch to NACS is actually good for Tesla, other than testimony to the standard design being better than CCS?
    - gonehome 3y ago
      It’s licensed access iirc so they’re getting some payment for it (which they deserve for their investment in building it out despite the odds). They also charge a higher rate to non-Tesla EVs. The other benefit is if they continued to refuse access they could have ended up like blackberry. The other companies would have adopted the CCS standard and (eventually) would have a competitive network. Then what was once a Tesla advantage would become more of a liability as the transition to EVs gets more complete. Few companies make this strategic shift at the right time imo and I think Tesla did. By leveraging their advantage now it’s a win win.

flextheruler 3y ago

Anyone who thinks the utility of an EV is identical to an ICE car in the US is deluding themselves or never gets out of town. I’ll probably take 10 long car trips a year often for camping but sometimes visiting friends. I know that most of the areas I’m driving through when I go east do not have the infrastructure at all and even if they do they’re still a hassle to use and add a bunch of time to a long drive. My mom had an EV so I have experience with range anxiety and the inconveniences of not running the AC, etc. It’s a bad purchase in my opinion much better to get a hybrid

vel0city 3y ago
> or never gets out of town. Or they just don't road trip when they get out of town, or "getting out of town" to them is within 100mi or so, or the corridors where they do tend to travel is well served with chargers, etc. I don't know about you, but I don't usually tend to pack my car with me when I go on an airplane. Maybe you do?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]