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People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. Home/work plug-in is amazing, and an underrated QOL

People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. Home/work plug-in is amazing, and an underrated QOL improvement over ICE, but it’s just not relevant to most of the concern around EV range. Range concern comes from either not having a charger available as a matter of daily business (street parking) or from frequently going on very long drives.

vel0city 3y ago
> People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. But this use case covers the majority of drivers in the US. The vast majority of people I've personally talked to concerned about range could absolutely charge at home and rarely drove more than even 100 miles.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  If that's true, then it may be a matter of lingering perception. As an ICE car owner who lives in LA, I see plenty of charging stations, but not necessarily when I go on drives of hundreds of miles outside the city. Of course, I may be biased given that I don't need to pay active attention to vehicle chargers. But, for me, it would be a deal breaker if I couldn't be confident that my car could still be fuelled up in Bumf*k, Nowhere.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The majority of people never fuel in Bumf*k, Nowhere though, and that's my point. I definitely understand though that EVs don't currently cover everyone's use cases, and I'm not entirely certain they'll cover everyone's needs in the end. But most people are pretty bad about actually thinking about what they actually need, and many car buyers aren't buying based on their realistic uses.
  - gonehome 3y ago
    They're there if you need them - not always extremely visible though if you're not driving to one (can see the map here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger). If you got a Tesla you'd get a better sense for how many superchargers there are. What you're saying is relevant though and why until recently I didn't really consider non-Tesla EVs an option to recommend if it was your only car (though now that Tesla has pivoted to opening up the superchargers to other car companies this is less of an issue).
    - ravenstine 3y ago
      That's very impressive. I was totally unaware to the extent of where chargers have been placed. There's even a supercharger located in Green River, UT, which was exactly the kind of place I was picturing in my head.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        There's a lot more chargers than people realize. A ton have been added in just the last year. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&show_map=true https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/an...
      - gonehome 3y ago
        Yeah - it's pretty wild, Tesla really committed to this a decade ago and has been chipping away at it since, the investment paid off. Even better, strategically Tesla created the "NACS" or North American Charging Standard which is a clever name for their far superior Tesla charger. They also pivoted from the superchargers being an exclusive reason to buy a Tesla to licensing them for other EVs - now Ford is onboard, Electrify America is switching to NACS, GM too. They pulled off this switch perfectly in a way most companies fail to do (ex: blackberry bbm) and as a result their investment in these will remain dominant and everyone will be unified around a superior standard (the EU charging standard CCS plug is a committee designed monster that's worse categorically). They're also continuing to expand. I love manual transmission sports cars, but EVs today are just superior for regular use and Teslas are the best option for most people (especially when considering their lower cost), putting subjective opinions about their mercurial leader aside. There's a reason the Model Y was the best selling car in 2023 Q1 across all categories globally [0]. HN has historically been poor at objectively evaluating this sort of thing especially about Tesla. [0]: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldwide-in-q1-the-tesla-model-y/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Model%20Y%20was,(h%2Ft%20Motor1) https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldw....
  - flextheruler 3y ago
    Anyone who thinks the utility of an EV is identical to an ICE car in the US is deluding themselves or never gets out of town. I’ll probably take 10 long car trips a year often for camping but sometimes visiting friends. I know that most of the areas I’m driving through when I go east do not have the infrastructure at all and even if they do they’re still a hassle to use and add a bunch of time to a long drive. My mom had an EV so I have experience with range anxiety and the inconveniences of not running the AC, etc. It’s a bad purchase in my opinion much better to get a hybrid
    - vel0city 3y ago
      > or never gets out of town. Or they just don't road trip when they get out of town, or "getting out of town" to them is within 100mi or so, or the corridors where they do tend to travel is well served with chargers, etc. I don't know about you, but I don't usually tend to pack my car with me when I go on an airplane. Maybe you do?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Right but most people buy cars for the totality of the driving they have to do, not just the majority. I bought a car specifically because I was tired of the awful rental experience, so "just rent when you need to go on a longer drive" is not a viable solution.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    As mentioned, I spend more time and deal with more of an overall hassle recharging my ICE than my EV despite going on more road trips and putting more miles on my EV than my ICE. And my EV is about the worst range option of the model line I bought and doesn't charge as fast as other options on the market today, so it's arguably not that great of a road trip EV. Having an EV can absolutely be a viable choice for these people.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Meh, I drove NYC <-> Montreal in a $90,000 Tesla and I frequently drive NYC <-> Raleigh in a $35,000 Acura. There is a 0% chance you'll convince me that the Tesla is the superior experience. It's not even remotely close. Granted Teslas aren't really the "nice" EVs these days anyway and not all of the badness of the Tesla experience was due to range/charging issues.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Are you really arguing the average car frequently makes 500mi+ road trips? Either way, your NYC <-> Raliegh trip would be like 26 minutes of charging on an 8 hour road trip. Do you really not stop for somewhat that kind of time for an 8 hour road trip? You don't stop to eat for a minute, you race through the gas station as fast as possible, etc? I know for me I'd probably want to stop a couple of times sitting for eight hours. You're really arguing the average driver frequently makes nearly non-stop eight hour road trips? https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=34769a63-3845-47ab-ae07-bb7ea9e2d19e https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=34769a63-3845-47a... I'm definitely not talking about which car is the most luxurious or comfortable. There's a lot of subjectivity to styling. I'm not really a fan of the Tesla style, but it's not like all EVs are Tesla's and they definitely don't all cost $90k.

vel0city 3y ago

> People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. But this use case covers the majority of drivers in the US. The vast majority of people I've personally talked to concerned about range could absolutely charge at home and rarely drove more than even 100 miles.

ravenstine 3y ago
If that's true, then it may be a matter of lingering perception. As an ICE car owner who lives in LA, I see plenty of charging stations, but not necessarily when I go on drives of hundreds of miles outside the city. Of course, I may be biased given that I don't need to pay active attention to vehicle chargers. But, for me, it would be a deal breaker if I couldn't be confident that my car could still be fuelled up in Bumf*k, Nowhere.
- vel0city 3y ago
  The majority of people never fuel in Bumf*k, Nowhere though, and that's my point. I definitely understand though that EVs don't currently cover everyone's use cases, and I'm not entirely certain they'll cover everyone's needs in the end. But most people are pretty bad about actually thinking about what they actually need, and many car buyers aren't buying based on their realistic uses.
- gonehome 3y ago
  They're there if you need them - not always extremely visible though if you're not driving to one (can see the map here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger https://www.tesla.com/supercharger). If you got a Tesla you'd get a better sense for how many superchargers there are. What you're saying is relevant though and why until recently I didn't really consider non-Tesla EVs an option to recommend if it was your only car (though now that Tesla has pivoted to opening up the superchargers to other car companies this is less of an issue).
  - ravenstine 3y ago
    That's very impressive. I was totally unaware to the extent of where chargers have been placed. There's even a supercharger located in Green River, UT, which was exactly the kind of place I was picturing in my head.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      There's a lot more chargers than people realize. A ton have been added in just the last year. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&show_map=true https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/an...
    - gonehome 3y ago
      Yeah - it's pretty wild, Tesla really committed to this a decade ago and has been chipping away at it since, the investment paid off. Even better, strategically Tesla created the "NACS" or North American Charging Standard which is a clever name for their far superior Tesla charger. They also pivoted from the superchargers being an exclusive reason to buy a Tesla to licensing them for other EVs - now Ford is onboard, Electrify America is switching to NACS, GM too. They pulled off this switch perfectly in a way most companies fail to do (ex: blackberry bbm) and as a result their investment in these will remain dominant and everyone will be unified around a superior standard (the EU charging standard CCS plug is a committee designed monster that's worse categorically). They're also continuing to expand. I love manual transmission sports cars, but EVs today are just superior for regular use and Teslas are the best option for most people (especially when considering their lower cost), putting subjective opinions about their mercurial leader aside. There's a reason the Model Y was the best selling car in 2023 Q1 across all categories globally [0]. HN has historically been poor at objectively evaluating this sort of thing especially about Tesla. [0]: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldwide-in-q1-the-tesla-model-y/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Model%20Y%20was,(h%2Ft%20Motor1) https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/31/best-selling-car-worldw....
- flextheruler 3y ago
  Anyone who thinks the utility of an EV is identical to an ICE car in the US is deluding themselves or never gets out of town. I’ll probably take 10 long car trips a year often for camping but sometimes visiting friends. I know that most of the areas I’m driving through when I go east do not have the infrastructure at all and even if they do they’re still a hassle to use and add a bunch of time to a long drive. My mom had an EV so I have experience with range anxiety and the inconveniences of not running the AC, etc. It’s a bad purchase in my opinion much better to get a hybrid
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > or never gets out of town. Or they just don't road trip when they get out of town, or "getting out of town" to them is within 100mi or so, or the corridors where they do tend to travel is well served with chargers, etc. I don't know about you, but I don't usually tend to pack my car with me when I go on an airplane. Maybe you do?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
ethanbond 3y ago
Right but most people buy cars for the totality of the driving they have to do, not just the majority. I bought a car specifically because I was tired of the awful rental experience, so "just rent when you need to go on a longer drive" is not a viable solution.
- vel0city 3y ago
  As mentioned, I spend more time and deal with more of an overall hassle recharging my ICE than my EV despite going on more road trips and putting more miles on my EV than my ICE. And my EV is about the worst range option of the model line I bought and doesn't charge as fast as other options on the market today, so it's arguably not that great of a road trip EV. Having an EV can absolutely be a viable choice for these people.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Meh, I drove NYC <-> Montreal in a $90,000 Tesla and I frequently drive NYC <-> Raleigh in a $35,000 Acura. There is a 0% chance you'll convince me that the Tesla is the superior experience. It's not even remotely close. Granted Teslas aren't really the "nice" EVs these days anyway and not all of the badness of the Tesla experience was due to range/charging issues.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Are you really arguing the average car frequently makes 500mi+ road trips? Either way, your NYC <-> Raliegh trip would be like 26 minutes of charging on an 8 hour road trip. Do you really not stop for somewhat that kind of time for an 8 hour road trip? You don't stop to eat for a minute, you race through the gas station as fast as possible, etc? I know for me I'd probably want to stop a couple of times sitting for eight hours. You're really arguing the average driver frequently makes nearly non-stop eight hour road trips? https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=34769a63-3845-47ab-ae07-bb7ea9e2d19e https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=34769a63-3845-47a... I'm definitely not talking about which car is the most luxurious or comfortable. There's a lot of subjectivity to styling. I'm not really a fan of the Tesla style, but it's not like all EVs are Tesla's and they definitely don't all cost $90k.