4 ms·

Next you'll say race relations were better before Obama in the Bush years and after Obama in the Trump years.

nebula8804 3y ago
Maybe the delineation should be before and after the "social media era"
gottorf 3y ago
I wasn't in this country for most of the Bush years, so you'll have to tell me how it was. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue. Is your point that I must be mistaken about race relations being better in the South than in coastal metropolises? Where I used to live, it was the kind of neighborhood with BLM signs on every other lawn, and approximately zero black people living there. Where I live now, there are approximately zero BLM signs on lawns, but plenty of people of different races living as neighbors, coworkers, friends, and lovers. Actual black people are moving back to the South[0], while champions of diversity are moving to less diverse places[1]. If that wasn't your point, please do tell. [0]: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-black-americans-return-to-the-south-1965-2000/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-b... [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268
- gamblor956 3y ago
  Why did you cite an article discussing black migration from 1965 through 2000 as proof that race relations are better in the South in 2023? (And on that note, the U.S. census data shows that California's black population in 2022 is larger than it was in 2000.) Also, the second link you does not state that "champions of diversity" are moving to less diverse places...it in fact states that positions on diversity play little to no role in where people actually live (though it does strongly inform where people prefer to live), and the general finding is that people of all races generally prefer to live with people of the same race except that Trump-supporting minorities prefer to live in White neighborhoods. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue Bush had his faults, but race relations wasn't one of them. OTOH, inflaming racial tension was the centerpiece of Trump's campaign. Just a week ago Trump lauded a singer for a video glorifying vigilantism in front of a courthouse where falsely-accused black men were lynched by vigilante mobs.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    > Why did you cite an article discussing black migration from 1965 through 2000 I'm sorry, I meant to cite this instead: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-new-great-migration-is-bringing-black-americans-back-to-the-south/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-new-great-migration-is-.... It shows big gains in black net migration to the South in 2000-2020. From net migration, West as a whole lost more black residents than in gained. I'd imagine there's been even more from 2020 till now, considering recent movement patterns. > California's black population in 2022 is larger than it was in 2000. In absolute numbers, yes (because the state grew a lot), but in proportion, it went from 6.7% black in 2000 to 6.5% in the 2022 estimates. In contrast, Mississippi, which isn't even a place people associate with the economic drivers of the New South, went from 36.3% black to 37.8% black in the same timeframe (out of a population increase of a mere 100k in the state). > it in fact states that positions on diversity play little to no role in where people actually live The study shows that whites regardless of their views on immigration/diversity, starting out from more diverse places, tend to move to whiter places compared to nonwhites starting from the same places. So yes, to be fair, it's not just white "champions of diversity" moving to less diverse places. But the gap in rhetoric vs. action is greater for that group, so I thought it worth notice. > inflaming racial tension was the centerpiece of Trump's campaign No arguments there from me. > a video glorifying vigilantism in front of a courthouse where falsely-accused black men were lynched by vigilante mobs Cooler heads have analyzed that the singer in question, Jason Aldean, does not in fact support lynching[0], and that the people accusing him of such are actually engaging in that very behavior of inflaming racial tension. [0]: https://www.thefp.com/p/jason-aldean-isnt-pro-lynching-and https://www.thefp.com/p/jason-aldean-isnt-pro-lynching-and
    - gamblor956 3y ago
      It seems that you're not American, so you don't appear to be aware of the history of lynchings in America. Aldean has been accused of being in support of lynching because he literally sings that he will lynch someone in his song if they try shit in his town. Aldean is from the South, he damn well knows what lynching means and it's history. Lynching refers to an extrajudicial murder, carried out by a mob or a posse. Literally, what Aldean sings about in his song. Over and over again. Specifically the lyrics: "See how far ya make it down the road/Around here, we take care of our own/You cross that line, it won't take long/ For you to find out, I recommend you don't/Try that in a small town". In the music video, he says these lines while prancing in front of a courthouse infamous for the lynching of an innocent black man by a white mob. If Aldean doesn't want to be accused of supporting lynching he shouldn't glorify it in a song and music video in which he happily sings about lynching. Over and over again. In front of a courthouse where an innocent black men was lynched by a white mob. people accusing him of such are actually engaging in that very behavior of inflaming racial tension. Today I learned that when a white man sings about lynching black men, in a music video full of images of black men committing activities (not even crimes!) of the type that he sings about wanting to lynch them for, I'm the one inflaming racial tensions when I call him out for it. Not the racist guy singing the race-baiting lyrics. Me. By the way, his name was Henry Choate. He was accused of rape (you cross that line), but even though the supposed victim said he wasn't her attacker, that night (it won't take long) a mob of about 250 white men (around here, we take care of our own), broke him out of holding, beat him with a hammer (for you to find out, I recommend you don't), tied to him a car, dragged him through the city, tied a noose to the second story balcony of the Columbia County Courthouse, threw him over the railing, and hanged him. http://john-banks.blogspot.com/2020/03/that-sends-you-to-hell-1927-lynching-of.html http://john-banks.blogspot.com/2020/03/that-sends-you-to-hel... Changes things when you know what the lyrics of the song actually refer to, doesn't it?

Maybe the delineation should be before and after the "social media era"

I wasn't in this country for most of the Bush years, so you'll have to tell me how it was. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue. Is your point that I must be mistaken about race relations being better in the South than in coastal metropolises? Where I used to live, it was the kind of neighborhood with BLM signs on every other lawn, and approximately zero black people living there. Where I live now, there are approximately zero BLM signs on lawns, but plenty of people of different races living as neighbors, coworkers, friends, and lovers. Actual black people are moving back to the South[0], while champions of diversity are moving to less diverse places[1]. If that wasn't your point, please do tell. [0]: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-black-americans-return-to-the-south-1965-2000/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-b... [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268

gamblor956 3y ago
Why did you cite an article discussing black migration from 1965 through 2000 as proof that race relations are better in the South in 2023? (And on that note, the U.S. census data shows that California's black population in 2022 is larger than it was in 2000.) Also, the second link you does not state that "champions of diversity" are moving to less diverse places...it in fact states that positions on diversity play little to no role in where people actually live (though it does strongly inform where people prefer to live), and the general finding is that people of all races generally prefer to live with people of the same race except that Trump-supporting minorities prefer to live in White neighborhoods. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue Bush had his faults, but race relations wasn't one of them. OTOH, inflaming racial tension was the centerpiece of Trump's campaign. Just a week ago Trump lauded a singer for a video glorifying vigilantism in front of a courthouse where falsely-accused black men were lynched by vigilante mobs.
- gottorf 3y ago
  > Why did you cite an article discussing black migration from 1965 through 2000 I'm sorry, I meant to cite this instead: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-new-great-migration-is-bringing-black-americans-back-to-the-south/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-new-great-migration-is-.... It shows big gains in black net migration to the South in 2000-2020. From net migration, West as a whole lost more black residents than in gained. I'd imagine there's been even more from 2020 till now, considering recent movement patterns. > California's black population in 2022 is larger than it was in 2000. In absolute numbers, yes (because the state grew a lot), but in proportion, it went from 6.7% black in 2000 to 6.5% in the 2022 estimates. In contrast, Mississippi, which isn't even a place people associate with the economic drivers of the New South, went from 36.3% black to 37.8% black in the same timeframe (out of a population increase of a mere 100k in the state). > it in fact states that positions on diversity play little to no role in where people actually live The study shows that whites regardless of their views on immigration/diversity, starting out from more diverse places, tend to move to whiter places compared to nonwhites starting from the same places. So yes, to be fair, it's not just white "champions of diversity" moving to less diverse places. But the gap in rhetoric vs. action is greater for that group, so I thought it worth notice. > inflaming racial tension was the centerpiece of Trump's campaign No arguments there from me. > a video glorifying vigilantism in front of a courthouse where falsely-accused black men were lynched by vigilante mobs Cooler heads have analyzed that the singer in question, Jason Aldean, does not in fact support lynching[0], and that the people accusing him of such are actually engaging in that very behavior of inflaming racial tension. [0]: https://www.thefp.com/p/jason-aldean-isnt-pro-lynching-and https://www.thefp.com/p/jason-aldean-isnt-pro-lynching-and
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    It seems that you're not American, so you don't appear to be aware of the history of lynchings in America. Aldean has been accused of being in support of lynching because he literally sings that he will lynch someone in his song if they try shit in his town. Aldean is from the South, he damn well knows what lynching means and it's history. Lynching refers to an extrajudicial murder, carried out by a mob or a posse. Literally, what Aldean sings about in his song. Over and over again. Specifically the lyrics: "See how far ya make it down the road/Around here, we take care of our own/You cross that line, it won't take long/ For you to find out, I recommend you don't/Try that in a small town". In the music video, he says these lines while prancing in front of a courthouse infamous for the lynching of an innocent black man by a white mob. If Aldean doesn't want to be accused of supporting lynching he shouldn't glorify it in a song and music video in which he happily sings about lynching. Over and over again. In front of a courthouse where an innocent black men was lynched by a white mob. people accusing him of such are actually engaging in that very behavior of inflaming racial tension. Today I learned that when a white man sings about lynching black men, in a music video full of images of black men committing activities (not even crimes!) of the type that he sings about wanting to lynch them for, I'm the one inflaming racial tensions when I call him out for it. Not the racist guy singing the race-baiting lyrics. Me. By the way, his name was Henry Choate. He was accused of rape (you cross that line), but even though the supposed victim said he wasn't her attacker, that night (it won't take long) a mob of about 250 white men (around here, we take care of our own), broke him out of holding, beat him with a hammer (for you to find out, I recommend you don't), tied to him a car, dragged him through the city, tied a noose to the second story balcony of the Columbia County Courthouse, threw him over the railing, and hanged him. http://john-banks.blogspot.com/2020/03/that-sends-you-to-hell-1927-lynching-of.html http://john-banks.blogspot.com/2020/03/that-sends-you-to-hel... Changes things when you know what the lyrics of the song actually refer to, doesn't it?