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Cannot stress enough how every framework for development that starts with "npm install" is inaccessible to most amateurs by its very nature. I'm not sure what

Cannot stress enough how every framework for development that starts with "npm install" is inaccessible to most amateurs by its very nature. I'm not sure what drives developers to be so insular with thought and make so many assumptions about others. It seems like basic gate-keeping activity, but maybe it's just ignorance.

threatofrain 3y ago
I'd say otherwise. JS is one of the largest and most vibrant communities because it is the opposite of hard. And because the amount of investment you get in and the amount of payoff you get out is emotionally delightful. And because there is a huge and competitive ecology of pedagogy on YT and other places. You don't get to this size because it's so hard. People aren't joining JS for the relatively low prestige, they aren't joining because the paycheck compares any better to any other part of the industry, and they aren't joining because of any promise of intellectual development — they're joining because it's the most accessible doorway in the tech community today. There's no other part of the industry that's so clogged with amateurs trying to join. The only other industry I can think of which is so hot in its community energy would be Python and ML, but they appeal with a different set of values. ML is hot because it's prestigious, ML is hot because the job market is insanely hot, ML is hot because it promises boundless intellectual exploration.
- cosmotic 3y ago
  I'm a senior software engineer with 20 years experience and I still struggle with npm/yarn nearly every time I use it. In my experience, the most senior people on JS teams also struggle with dependency problems, react, etc constantly. This is not a struggle I experience or see others experiencing with Java or C#. Python environments and tools can be frustrating but not anywhere near as much as JS tools.
  - deleted 3y ago
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THENATHE 3y ago
I agree. I’ve used nodejs quite a bit, but I rarely need it for whatever I am doing and quite often actively avoid it because all of that shit is a pain in the ass over just writing a script in an ide or even direct text.

threatofrain 3y ago

I'd say otherwise. JS is one of the largest and most vibrant communities because it is the opposite of hard. And because the amount of investment you get in and the amount of payoff you get out is emotionally delightful. And because there is a huge and competitive ecology of pedagogy on YT and other places. You don't get to this size because it's so hard. People aren't joining JS for the relatively low prestige, they aren't joining because the paycheck compares any better to any other part of the industry, and they aren't joining because of any promise of intellectual development — they're joining because it's the most accessible doorway in the tech community today. There's no other part of the industry that's so clogged with amateurs trying to join. The only other industry I can think of which is so hot in its community energy would be Python and ML, but they appeal with a different set of values. ML is hot because it's prestigious, ML is hot because the job market is insanely hot, ML is hot because it promises boundless intellectual exploration.

cosmotic 3y ago
I'm a senior software engineer with 20 years experience and I still struggle with npm/yarn nearly every time I use it. In my experience, the most senior people on JS teams also struggle with dependency problems, react, etc constantly. This is not a struggle I experience or see others experiencing with Java or C#. Python environments and tools can be frustrating but not anywhere near as much as JS tools.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

THENATHE 3y ago

I agree. I’ve used nodejs quite a bit, but I rarely need it for whatever I am doing and quite often actively avoid it because all of that shit is a pain in the ass over just writing a script in an ide or even direct text.