4 ms·

This might be one of the reasons why some competitive gaming communities seem so joyless after a while.

by Lariscus 3y ago

ydnaclementine 3y ago
>win >feel nothing >lose >day ruined
- ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
  why is "greentext" such an expressive and iconic way of communicating in online text? win: feel nothing lose: day ruined communicates the same idea but feels less emotionally punchy somehow.
wiseowise 3y ago
They're joyless because they become increasingly toxic the higher you get. At least in mainstream games. Do something outside of meta and you're enemy number one.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  It's the fact that the games are geared towards sexed up number crunching. Anything that can't be quantified into a number is ignored by the developers. I don't know why people like this stuff. Isn't real life already filled with number crunching?
  - the_sleaze9 3y ago
    When I became a full time developer, I lost any sense of adventure or accomplishment with regard to video games. VR still has some sense of wonder or competitiveness that I used to feel playing WoW as a kid. Just slowly embracing my inner old man yelling at clouds I suppose, a lot of kids see eSports as a viable future career now.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      For WoW specifically, the appeal melted away as it increasingly pushed instanced competitive endgame (raids, M+, arenas) as the the central pillars of the game. What pulled me in back in 2005 was its world which was not only vast and beautiful, but shared with numerous other players, as well as the more tabletop adventure feel that casual play (and even entry level raiding) entailed back then. Things that are prioritized now like leaderboard chasing and increasingly convoluted boss encounters are not what I logged on for.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > I don't know why people like this stuff. Maybe because they don't have it enough in their life? I used to enjoy MMORPGs when I was younger, nowadays I understand that it's spreadsheet-assisted grind. > Isn't real life already filled with number crunching? Precisely, the moment I entered "real life" I lost all drive for any online games, because I "saw through" their gameplay.
- jwells89 3y ago
  Even in more casual online games these days, not adhering to the meta will bring trouble. Maximum optimization is the default expectation, and if you play to unwind rather than to compete or have a playstyle that’s more driven by whim or enjoyment you’ll be labeled a bad player. This has driven me away from online games, even though they were one of my primary hobbies back in the 2000s. The ambient attitude has changed so much since then.
harimau777 3y ago
I suspect that another reason might be that the mechanics of competitive gaming focus on maximizing players' control over whether they win rather than on maximizing joy. It's like the difference between backyard football and professional football. In backyard football most people play with house rules that make the game more fun but less competitive. On the other hand, in professional football the rules are designed to help ensure that the better team wins.
mcpackieh 3y ago
Often the game mechanics themselves aren't actually fun (at least after the novelty wears off) but players keep playing because they enjoy the sensation of winning. The player can't have fun unless they win because the game is not intrinsically fun. You know it's a good game when you can reflect back on a match you lost and think "yeah that was worth it, I had fun."
- Kinrany 3y ago
  Treating "losing is fun" as an explicit design goal and not merely an observation about some games is something I haven't seen, but it makes a lot of sense.
Pannoniae 3y ago
Or because all of those popular games are manipulative and their goal is not to make you happy or fulfilled, but to frustrate you so you play more. Those games are frustrating on purpose.

This might be one of the reasons why some competitive gaming communities seem so joyless after a while.

ydnaclementine 3y ago

>win >feel nothing >lose >day ruined

ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
why is "greentext" such an expressive and iconic way of communicating in online text? win: feel nothing lose: day ruined communicates the same idea but feels less emotionally punchy somehow.

wiseowise 3y ago

They're joyless because they become increasingly toxic the higher you get. At least in mainstream games. Do something outside of meta and you're enemy number one.

ImHereToVote 3y ago
It's the fact that the games are geared towards sexed up number crunching. Anything that can't be quantified into a number is ignored by the developers. I don't know why people like this stuff. Isn't real life already filled with number crunching?
- the_sleaze9 3y ago
  When I became a full time developer, I lost any sense of adventure or accomplishment with regard to video games. VR still has some sense of wonder or competitiveness that I used to feel playing WoW as a kid. Just slowly embracing my inner old man yelling at clouds I suppose, a lot of kids see eSports as a viable future career now.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    For WoW specifically, the appeal melted away as it increasingly pushed instanced competitive endgame (raids, M+, arenas) as the the central pillars of the game. What pulled me in back in 2005 was its world which was not only vast and beautiful, but shared with numerous other players, as well as the more tabletop adventure feel that casual play (and even entry level raiding) entailed back then. Things that are prioritized now like leaderboard chasing and increasingly convoluted boss encounters are not what I logged on for.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > I don't know why people like this stuff. Maybe because they don't have it enough in their life? I used to enjoy MMORPGs when I was younger, nowadays I understand that it's spreadsheet-assisted grind. > Isn't real life already filled with number crunching? Precisely, the moment I entered "real life" I lost all drive for any online games, because I "saw through" their gameplay.
jwells89 3y ago
Even in more casual online games these days, not adhering to the meta will bring trouble. Maximum optimization is the default expectation, and if you play to unwind rather than to compete or have a playstyle that’s more driven by whim or enjoyment you’ll be labeled a bad player. This has driven me away from online games, even though they were one of my primary hobbies back in the 2000s. The ambient attitude has changed so much since then.

harimau777 3y ago

I suspect that another reason might be that the mechanics of competitive gaming focus on maximizing players' control over whether they win rather than on maximizing joy. It's like the difference between backyard football and professional football. In backyard football most people play with house rules that make the game more fun but less competitive. On the other hand, in professional football the rules are designed to help ensure that the better team wins.

mcpackieh 3y ago

Often the game mechanics themselves aren't actually fun (at least after the novelty wears off) but players keep playing because they enjoy the sensation of winning. The player can't have fun unless they win because the game is not intrinsically fun. You know it's a good game when you can reflect back on a match you lost and think "yeah that was worth it, I had fun."

Kinrany 3y ago
Treating "losing is fun" as an explicit design goal and not merely an observation about some games is something I haven't seen, but it makes a lot of sense.

Pannoniae 3y ago

Or because all of those popular games are manipulative and their goal is not to make you happy or fulfilled, but to frustrate you so you play more. Those games are frustrating on purpose.