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Having lived in Singapore, I'm ok with this. I can't judge foreign countries by my Western values when all the countries that agree with those values face cripp
by BowBun 3y ago
Having lived in Singapore, I'm ok with this. I can't judge foreign countries by my Western values when all the countries that agree with those values face crippling drug problems. If this is the extent of it and it isn't abused, I think it's fair for a country to take this stance.
- nickthegreek 3y agoThe abuse is happening by the State.
- ipaddr 3y agoWhere do you draw the line? Murdering a women is okay because she had a chemical she was going to use personally. Would removing body parts like cutting off an arm for stealing be acceptable? Or rape for adultery? Judging life by western standards seems like a sensible thing to do if you come from the west.
- waihtis 3y agothe woman was trafficking. It's not only for personal consumption but for others too. If a trafficker sold heroin to your child, would you be as lenient about it?
- deadbeeves 3y agoWell, did the woman sell heroin to children?
- ipaddr 3y agoYes because I wouldn't blame her for my childs addiction. Arresting her means your child gets it from another source potential more dangerous. You need to treat the addiction not kill the messenger. My child is probably more like her than I would want to believe. Both struggling mentally and needing help. Killing her means I'm okay with killing my own child because they shared with a friend.
- volkk 3y ago> My child is probably more like her than I would want to believe. Both struggling mentally and needing help fascinating take here. granted a very empathic one, but also extremely naive
- BowBun 3y agoFollowing up on my other comment to say I appreciate how personal this topic is to you, and I mean no disrespect. That said I don't think moving 30 grams of Heroin is 'just sharing'. In Singapore, this kind of crime is the absolute worst of the worst, similar to and in some cases punished worse than murder. Just important to think of how relatively serious these crimes are in other places. It's not like the US or Europe.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoI'm not sure it makes sense to treat Western standards as a single system. There's considerable variety in Westerners' beliefs.
- ipaddr 3y agoYour personal standards and everyone elses in the western world make up the totality of Western standards. So you would go with your local version which are Western standards because you are western.
- BowBun 3y agoI don't think you're making much of a point besides that there are other crimes you should consider separately from this example. I was pretty clear that I am ok with the example this post is about. The law in Singapore that illegal import of Heroin (any amount) is punishable by death. As far as I know there are no huge movements happening to repeal Singapore's drug laws by their citizens. > Judging life by western standards seems like a sensible thing to do if you come from the west. Only if you have no awareness of your own surroundings and upbringing. Those of us with the opportunity to widen our worldview understand that applying one country's value system to another is comparing apples to oranges. The hubris in thinking that your country/culture's values apply to another population across the world is maddening and a big contributor to the anti-West sentiment around the world.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago'Western' has nothing to do with it. There's right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong. It's not in any sense Justice.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y agoThere are many who would say this is clearly right. Executing drug traffickers for Singapore, causes the amount of drug use to decrease and saves many more lives.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoThis is my view as well. My main reservation is that, at least in the US, we've had a problem with executing people who may have been innocent.
- rented_mule 3y agoIs it possible for any justice system to be free of corruption and infallible in identifying guilt? If not, innocent people will be executed.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoI agree. On my view, it's ultimately a quantitative question. E.g., if we had a system where 1 unjust execution avoided 1 million being killed by drunk drivers, I'd chose the unjust execution. But if those numbers were reversed, I wouldn't. But if I'm being honest, I can't justify why someone should prefer my ethical framework over some other. So I'm not sure my opinion means much in the end.
- axdx 3y agoInnocent people do get sentenced to imprisonment. There is one incident that I can remember from the recent past. This individual was fortunate to get her conviction overturned by a pro-bono lawyer's efforts. https://www.home.org.sg/our-updates/2020/9/7/parti-liyani-an-indonesian-domestic-workers-fight-to-clear-her-name-1 https://www.home.org.sg/our-updates/2020/9/7/parti-liyani-an...
- fleshmonad 3y agoThe death penalty should be abolished entirely, even though it may indulge the public thirst for "justice", driven by superficial motives. Adhering to a modern and enlightened worldview, the consumption of drugs should be the choice of each individual. Sentencing someone to death for the mere consumption and possession of drugs has nothing to do with protecting the public, but with ideological cleansing, especially regarding certain drugs
- Brian_K_White 3y agoSpoken like someone who is not at 2x the risk of being accused wrongly and then given no actual chance vs their neighbor of the wrong ethnicity or political stripe.
- pchangr 3y agoI am not sure if you are aware of this. But Singapore has even housing policies designed to deter racial discrimination. I would be extremely surprised if race played any role here.
- Brian_K_White 3y agoEvery country is full of such policies that claim the same goal, including all the worst offenders.
- BowBun 3y agoGrand generalizations vs. experience from people having experienced life there. I know which points I give more weight to.