5 ms·

> and also Aliens can at most go close to lightspeed. You're an expert in alien technology and civilizations far more technologically advanced than we are?

atoav 3y ago
I mean there is one thing we can safely assume: their vehicles have to operate in the same universe as ours, at least when they are meant to be in ours at some point. Now they might know some tricks around the limitations of our universes physics, but even those tricks must do something measurably.
- avaldez_ 3y ago
  They have to abide by the rules of the universe that WE know of. The universe is unbelievably big but also unfathomably OLD, so I'm sure there's been plenty of time for a number of civilizations to reach a technological level vastly larger than ours. Our latest technological revolution started just a hundred years ago. Imagine what just 10,000 more years can do. I mean, we thought (and our math said so) that the speed of sound was a physical barrier just a _few_ years ago. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl%E2%80%93Glauert_singularity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl%E2%80%93Glauert_singul...)
  - Shawnj2 3y ago
    Not necessarily, from what I heard humanity being alone is actually an extremely plausible solution to the Fermi paradox because we exist close to the beginning of the total lifespan of the universe.
    - techbuttman 3y ago
      The universe is thought to be about 13.8 billion years old. The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old. I don't think humanity has even been around for 500k years.
      - Shawnj2 3y ago
        Yep so life on earth evolved about as early as reasonably possible.
        gorjusborg 3y ago
        Easy to claim when your sample size is 1/1. Hard to know for sure.
        Shawnj2 3y ago
        There are other factors that stop the kind of life we see on earth from appearing earlier in the universe’s history. For example the first stars (the pure hydrogen ones) could not have had planets that supported life and they burned too hot and quick to reasonably do so.
throwbadubadu 3y ago
Nope, I gave my opinion with probabilities I feel reasonable, given our current understanding of physics and the limits imposed - and I didn't exclude anything. So what is yours? You are an expert and certainly know they invented some way of FTL travel? Otherwise, see..
Shawnj2 3y ago
Not being able to move faster than c is a pretty hard limit on everything in the universe. Unless our model of physics, the same one that predicted gravitational waves, black holes, time dilation, gravitational lending, etc. correctly is so fundamentally wrong that FTL travel is possible without things that probably don’t exist like negative mass aliens would need to spend at least decades to get to and from Earth. Frankly we’re not that important.
- omniglottal 3y ago
  Theoretically, repositioning one's coordinates in 3 dimensions over a limited span in a fourth dimension (time) is limited by c. Same goes for repositioning the 4-dimensional coordinates for the apparent quantom waveform collapse into physical manifestation of any distinct "object". Assuming that alien physics only applies to these 4 dimensions, unmodified, is pure hubris. Multiple theories accommodate space travel by adjusting coefficients other than velocity. A "warp bubble" or "wormhole", for example, theorize the ability to cover large distances faster than light moves through vacuum over that same distance by, instead, changing the distance between interstellar objects, or changing the effective space-time properties of the craft, itself, in it's localized spacetime becoming non-equivalent to that "light through a vacuum" course. Even quantum entanglement describes spooky action at a distance which you might assume impossible if you assume c limits this superposition in space-time. This c limit obviously does not apply to "everything" in the universe. It's fundamentally wrong to assume that interstellar travel requires any velocity whatsoever.
- donny2018 3y ago
  Theoretically, there is no need for FTL. Ability to achieve relativistic speeds is enough for the space traveler to cross the galaxy in months or even hours (in his local time). Even flying to a different galaxy would be possible.

atoav 3y ago

I mean there is one thing we can safely assume: their vehicles have to operate in the same universe as ours, at least when they are meant to be in ours at some point. Now they might know some tricks around the limitations of our universes physics, but even those tricks must do something measurably.

avaldez_ 3y ago
They have to abide by the rules of the universe that WE know of. The universe is unbelievably big but also unfathomably OLD, so I'm sure there's been plenty of time for a number of civilizations to reach a technological level vastly larger than ours. Our latest technological revolution started just a hundred years ago. Imagine what just 10,000 more years can do. I mean, we thought (and our math said so) that the speed of sound was a physical barrier just a _few_ years ago. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl%E2%80%93Glauert_singularity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl%E2%80%93Glauert_singul...)
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  Not necessarily, from what I heard humanity being alone is actually an extremely plausible solution to the Fermi paradox because we exist close to the beginning of the total lifespan of the universe.
  - techbuttman 3y ago
    The universe is thought to be about 13.8 billion years old. The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old. I don't think humanity has even been around for 500k years.
    - Shawnj2 3y ago
      Yep so life on earth evolved about as early as reasonably possible.
      - gorjusborg 3y ago
        Easy to claim when your sample size is 1/1. Hard to know for sure.
        Shawnj2 3y ago
        There are other factors that stop the kind of life we see on earth from appearing earlier in the universe’s history. For example the first stars (the pure hydrogen ones) could not have had planets that supported life and they burned too hot and quick to reasonably do so.

throwbadubadu 3y ago

Nope, I gave my opinion with probabilities I feel reasonable, given our current understanding of physics and the limits imposed - and I didn't exclude anything. So what is yours? You are an expert and certainly know they invented some way of FTL travel? Otherwise, see..

Shawnj2 3y ago

Not being able to move faster than c is a pretty hard limit on everything in the universe. Unless our model of physics, the same one that predicted gravitational waves, black holes, time dilation, gravitational lending, etc. correctly is so fundamentally wrong that FTL travel is possible without things that probably don’t exist like negative mass aliens would need to spend at least decades to get to and from Earth. Frankly we’re not that important.

omniglottal 3y ago
Theoretically, repositioning one's coordinates in 3 dimensions over a limited span in a fourth dimension (time) is limited by c. Same goes for repositioning the 4-dimensional coordinates for the apparent quantom waveform collapse into physical manifestation of any distinct "object". Assuming that alien physics only applies to these 4 dimensions, unmodified, is pure hubris. Multiple theories accommodate space travel by adjusting coefficients other than velocity. A "warp bubble" or "wormhole", for example, theorize the ability to cover large distances faster than light moves through vacuum over that same distance by, instead, changing the distance between interstellar objects, or changing the effective space-time properties of the craft, itself, in it's localized spacetime becoming non-equivalent to that "light through a vacuum" course. Even quantum entanglement describes spooky action at a distance which you might assume impossible if you assume c limits this superposition in space-time. This c limit obviously does not apply to "everything" in the universe. It's fundamentally wrong to assume that interstellar travel requires any velocity whatsoever.
donny2018 3y ago
Theoretically, there is no need for FTL. Ability to achieve relativistic speeds is enough for the space traveler to cross the galaxy in months or even hours (in his local time). Even flying to a different galaxy would be possible.