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Note that the EU's Digital Markets Act will probably stop all that bs, as requiring to use one core platform service to develop for, and distribute to, another

Note that the EU's Digital Markets Act will probably stop all that bs, as requiring to use one core platform service to develop for, and distribute to, another (iOS) is against that law. Third-party app stores and outright website-based app distribution are coming next year anyway.

ziftface 3y ago
That's interesting, I did not know about this legislation. I'm not European, but it seems that even outside of Europe, people will benefit from this change.
- sofixa 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
If Apple was compelled to support a first-class iOS development experience on Windows, all this would do is immovably stunt the continued improvement of iOS development on macOS. There is a material degree of OS integration / cooperation in IOS development with Xcode. If Apple released a second-class development experience I’ve no doubt that you’d spare no time in making similar insinuations that it’s some sort of artificial constraint.
- incrudible 3y ago
  XCode is a hog, if there was a supported way to develop applications without it, that would be a first class experience.
  - detourdog 3y ago
    like the xcode cli tools. all th e basic tools are there.
  - INGSOCIALITE 3y ago
    This is more than accurate. I wanted to start iOS development, but even opening Xcode is painful.
  - parski 3y ago
    Been using Xcode since 2012 and I think it's great. It has it's flaws, sure, but overall I think it's a really good development experience. What do you dislike about it?
    - jwells89 3y ago
      I've been using it since it was known as Project Builder and also don't have many complaints. It's not perfect, but it's not bad. I spend plenty of time in the IntelliJ-based Android Studio and haven't found it to be much of an improvement (and in fact, find that its "smarts" get in the way as often as they help).
- jwells89 3y ago
  Xcode and iOS Simulator on other platforms would involve porting AppKit as well as writing all-new Darwin virtualization for those platforms. Xcode is thoroughly a Mac native app, and the iOS/watchOS/tvOS/etc simulators currently just run the respective userlands on top of the underpinnings that macOS shares with other Apple platforms. It'd be rather similar to the situation with Docker, where Xcode and the simulators would run markedly better on macOS than on other platforms due to fewer layers being necessary. Developing for iOS on Windows or Linux would technically be possible but it wouldn't be very pleasant.

ziftface 3y ago

That's interesting, I did not know about this legislation. I'm not European, but it seems that even outside of Europe, people will benefit from this change.

sofixa 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago

If Apple was compelled to support a first-class iOS development experience on Windows, all this would do is immovably stunt the continued improvement of iOS development on macOS. There is a material degree of OS integration / cooperation in IOS development with Xcode. If Apple released a second-class development experience I’ve no doubt that you’d spare no time in making similar insinuations that it’s some sort of artificial constraint.

incrudible 3y ago
XCode is a hog, if there was a supported way to develop applications without it, that would be a first class experience.
- detourdog 3y ago
  like the xcode cli tools. all th e basic tools are there.
- INGSOCIALITE 3y ago
  This is more than accurate. I wanted to start iOS development, but even opening Xcode is painful.
- parski 3y ago
  Been using Xcode since 2012 and I think it's great. It has it's flaws, sure, but overall I think it's a really good development experience. What do you dislike about it?
  - jwells89 3y ago
    I've been using it since it was known as Project Builder and also don't have many complaints. It's not perfect, but it's not bad. I spend plenty of time in the IntelliJ-based Android Studio and haven't found it to be much of an improvement (and in fact, find that its "smarts" get in the way as often as they help).
jwells89 3y ago
Xcode and iOS Simulator on other platforms would involve porting AppKit as well as writing all-new Darwin virtualization for those platforms. Xcode is thoroughly a Mac native app, and the iOS/watchOS/tvOS/etc simulators currently just run the respective userlands on top of the underpinnings that macOS shares with other Apple platforms. It'd be rather similar to the situation with Docker, where Xcode and the simulators would run markedly better on macOS than on other platforms due to fewer layers being necessary. Developing for iOS on Windows or Linux would technically be possible but it wouldn't be very pleasant.