5 ms·

Why is everyone who criticizes JertBrains getting downvoted? It is frigging expensive for what it does!!

by objektif 3y ago

DangitBobby 3y ago
Err... No, it's incredibly cheap for what it does.
- winampskin 3y ago
  Completely agreed. Violating privacy and uploading data to random third party is an expensive thing. They should be charging a lot more.
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    I don't really think that's what I'm paying for though. The features I pay for are well worth the money.
  - monlockandkey 3y ago
    You have to download a plugin for the AI features
nomel 3y ago
It saved me countless hours, with its far superior refactoring, compared to something like vscode.
- foepys 3y ago
  The time I saved because I don't need to double check if VSCode found all symbols while refactoring a large Angular app is worth multiple times the Jetbrains license...
  - nomel 3y ago
    That's actually the big difference, from my, and others [1], experience. Jetbrains is type aware, and code structure aware, so will refactor far beyond symbols. I can move functions/classes, reorder/rename arguments of methods, move classes around, etc. Last I checked, this was very limited in vscode. [1] https://blankly.finance/vscode-vs-jetbrains/ https://blankly.finance/vscode-vs-jetbrains/
iamcreasy 3y ago
Besides what others have mentioned - I've always gotten an high quality response on the official forum by JetBrains representative within hours/days. Also their monthly to perpetual license is a great deal. I am currently using my personal license on my job. The only issue I have their product is their feature parity. There is usually no timeline on when features from other product will be available on your product via an official plugin. For example, DataSpell has remote Jupyter notebooks feature before PyCharm Pro.
- anticodon 3y ago
  Well, some bugs are not fixed for many years. E.g. they do not support docker compose option `--project-directory`. It means that your docker compose files must always reside in the root directory of your project, otherwise PyCharm (or other JetBrains IDE) would fail to properly parse them and/or your project. Sometimes it works, sometimes it breaks, it depends on your exact version of the IDE, but most of the time it doesn't work. And I find keeping all of my docker configuration in the root of the project cluttering the project, I prefer to keep them in the deploy, docker, or compose subdirectory. The bug for this exists for many years with absolutely nothing being done about it. Maybe it's my personal pain but it is highly annoying. Sometimes I'm so desperate that I wish to disassemble and patch this part of the IDE myself.
  - iamcreasy 3y ago
    I find their git integration limited as well. When using git I always find myself using IDE's integrated terminal, or OS's terminal. But, I've reported bugs on their tracker - it took a while, but they fixed it.
    - anticodon 3y ago
      Yep, but some of the bugs take years to fix. Some are fixed quickly, some are not fixed for years, and it doesn't always depend on bug severity. Long time ago there was an UI bug in the debugger that wasn't fixed for a long time, maybe like a year. Although I admit that I rarely see serious bugs now. They were more frequent 10 years ago. Still, bugs with docker/docker compose integration remain and they are highly annoying to me since I almost exclusively develop in docker now. And it seems that docker integration has much less priority for evolution and bug fixing than other areas of JetBrains IDEs. In almost all new releases there's no bug fixes and improvements related to docker integration (and I try to browse their release announcements often). As of git integration, for me there's almost everything I need. I even started to do rebase more often in the IDE rather than in command line.
TheCapeGreek 3y ago
Tightly integrated full-feature development environment. - Don't have to fiddle with extensions, linters, debuggers, etcetc nearly as much (less of a problem depending which language you use, but still) - Database viewer - Git UI - CLI Doesn't cost much more than a few hours of work at an hourly rate, and saves a lot more time in not fiddling with your setup or having 5 different apps for everything.
- objektif 3y ago
  Why is the pricing tied to how much time it saves you and what hourly rate are you basing your calculations on?
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    Unless you're charging an intern level rate to your clients, it's reasonable to assume for a good chunk of the industry that the cost is alright. Even $15/hr would cover it in a day. If you're using it in an employment environment, your employer should be footing the bill. Not every post has to be hyper-specific with stats, charts and graphs. > Why is the pricing tied to how much time it saves you Because that's the value proposition over setting up and managing all the tools myself? Especially the core IDE portion.
    - objektif 3y ago
      I think it is crazy to price software that way. Do you also price airline tickets, car purchase etc that way?
      - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
        The primary input of software is labour - i.e. time spent working. We stand on mountains of open source work that makes the job much faster and cheaper. This labour cost is certainly also factored into costs in many other industries. The difference with software is that, largely speaking, the TCO goes way down if you only consider the software (and infrastructure) itself. Cloud infrastructure costs can get pricey but salaries will always be more expensive. So it makes sense to view things this way in software land when selling your time - and thus also how you view purchases that affect how you spend your time.
claudiug 3y ago
is super cheap for what it delivers;

Why is everyone who criticizes JertBrains getting downvoted? It is frigging expensive for what it does!!

DangitBobby 3y ago

Err... No, it's incredibly cheap for what it does.

winampskin 3y ago
Completely agreed. Violating privacy and uploading data to random third party is an expensive thing. They should be charging a lot more.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  I don't really think that's what I'm paying for though. The features I pay for are well worth the money.
- monlockandkey 3y ago
  You have to download a plugin for the AI features

nomel 3y ago

It saved me countless hours, with its far superior refactoring, compared to something like vscode.

foepys 3y ago
The time I saved because I don't need to double check if VSCode found all symbols while refactoring a large Angular app is worth multiple times the Jetbrains license...
- nomel 3y ago
  That's actually the big difference, from my, and others [1], experience. Jetbrains is type aware, and code structure aware, so will refactor far beyond symbols. I can move functions/classes, reorder/rename arguments of methods, move classes around, etc. Last I checked, this was very limited in vscode. [1] https://blankly.finance/vscode-vs-jetbrains/ https://blankly.finance/vscode-vs-jetbrains/

iamcreasy 3y ago

Besides what others have mentioned - I've always gotten an high quality response on the official forum by JetBrains representative within hours/days. Also their monthly to perpetual license is a great deal. I am currently using my personal license on my job. The only issue I have their product is their feature parity. There is usually no timeline on when features from other product will be available on your product via an official plugin. For example, DataSpell has remote Jupyter notebooks feature before PyCharm Pro.

anticodon 3y ago
Well, some bugs are not fixed for many years. E.g. they do not support docker compose option `--project-directory`. It means that your docker compose files must always reside in the root directory of your project, otherwise PyCharm (or other JetBrains IDE) would fail to properly parse them and/or your project. Sometimes it works, sometimes it breaks, it depends on your exact version of the IDE, but most of the time it doesn't work. And I find keeping all of my docker configuration in the root of the project cluttering the project, I prefer to keep them in the deploy, docker, or compose subdirectory. The bug for this exists for many years with absolutely nothing being done about it. Maybe it's my personal pain but it is highly annoying. Sometimes I'm so desperate that I wish to disassemble and patch this part of the IDE myself.
- iamcreasy 3y ago
  I find their git integration limited as well. When using git I always find myself using IDE's integrated terminal, or OS's terminal. But, I've reported bugs on their tracker - it took a while, but they fixed it.
  - anticodon 3y ago
    Yep, but some of the bugs take years to fix. Some are fixed quickly, some are not fixed for years, and it doesn't always depend on bug severity. Long time ago there was an UI bug in the debugger that wasn't fixed for a long time, maybe like a year. Although I admit that I rarely see serious bugs now. They were more frequent 10 years ago. Still, bugs with docker/docker compose integration remain and they are highly annoying to me since I almost exclusively develop in docker now. And it seems that docker integration has much less priority for evolution and bug fixing than other areas of JetBrains IDEs. In almost all new releases there's no bug fixes and improvements related to docker integration (and I try to browse their release announcements often). As of git integration, for me there's almost everything I need. I even started to do rebase more often in the IDE rather than in command line.

TheCapeGreek 3y ago

Tightly integrated full-feature development environment. - Don't have to fiddle with extensions, linters, debuggers, etcetc nearly as much (less of a problem depending which language you use, but still) - Database viewer - Git UI - CLI Doesn't cost much more than a few hours of work at an hourly rate, and saves a lot more time in not fiddling with your setup or having 5 different apps for everything.

objektif 3y ago
Why is the pricing tied to how much time it saves you and what hourly rate are you basing your calculations on?
- TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  Unless you're charging an intern level rate to your clients, it's reasonable to assume for a good chunk of the industry that the cost is alright. Even $15/hr would cover it in a day. If you're using it in an employment environment, your employer should be footing the bill. Not every post has to be hyper-specific with stats, charts and graphs. > Why is the pricing tied to how much time it saves you Because that's the value proposition over setting up and managing all the tools myself? Especially the core IDE portion.
  - objektif 3y ago
    I think it is crazy to price software that way. Do you also price airline tickets, car purchase etc that way?
    - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
      The primary input of software is labour - i.e. time spent working. We stand on mountains of open source work that makes the job much faster and cheaper. This labour cost is certainly also factored into costs in many other industries. The difference with software is that, largely speaking, the TCO goes way down if you only consider the software (and infrastructure) itself. Cloud infrastructure costs can get pricey but salaries will always be more expensive. So it makes sense to view things this way in software land when selling your time - and thus also how you view purchases that affect how you spend your time.

claudiug 3y ago

is super cheap for what it delivers;