35 ms·

It is really irritating that debit cards get treated as second class payment. It was particularly galling that the IRS wouldn't accept them as ID confirmation f

It is really irritating that debit cards get treated as second class payment. It was particularly galling that the IRS wouldn't accept them as ID confirmation for corona stimulus. Ultimately, US debit cards can use the same credit charge rails. It's just silly turf wars that make them sporadically unusable.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> debit cards get treated as second class payment In what way?
- latchkey 3y ago
  Usually the processing fee is passed onto the user.
- vajrabum 3y ago
  Legal tender for all debts public and private.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Credit cards aren’t legal tender either. And making cards legal tender would be quite absurd, since it would require anyone being owed any money to get a terminal and card acceptance contract in case their debtor decides to collect some credit card points.
  - callalex 3y ago
    The key word is “debts”. A purchase is not a debt.
    - _v7gu 3y ago
      Only technically, a purchase is two debts: delivery if the good and delivery of the money.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  Debit is problematic at gas stations and some stores that prompt you to select debit or credit and then lock you out if you select debit. You don't see MasterCard threatening to cut off credit payments here. That's unequal treatment. If their issue is really with federal compliance they should cut off all payment processing. What they really want is the sweet merchant fees they lose out on when debit payment is used.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > Debit is problematic at gas stations and some stores that prompt you to select debit or credit and then lock you out if you select debit. Merchants aren’t required to let you make that choice, so this is probably a misconfigured terminal. And if a debit card works when you press “credit”, what’s the issue? There is almost never a benefit to you for making that (quite technical) choice yourself.
  - loeg 3y ago
    > You don't see MasterCard threatening to cut off credit payments here. This is because these places can't accept credit card payments, only cash. Debit cards (and cash) were the only payment they accepted.
    - callalex 3y ago
      To clarify further, no cannabis seller can accept debit cards as a payment method. Instead they can certify their machines as mobile ATM providers that just happen to let you withdraw an amount of cash that just happens to be approximately the same amount of money you might happen to want to pay to the person holding the mobile ATM terminal plus a modest tip. (Yes, really, this is how the industry functions).
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    How hard can it be... Here even contactless payment on debit works perfectly well on any gas station. Show card, maximum of 50€ gets charged. Then fill up either you get only 50€ worth of gas or soon enough the sum is lowered to what you got...
- dagurp 3y ago
  Renting a car is impossible without a credit card AFAIK
  - landemva 3y ago
    Budget will rent if I use one debit card but not another.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      Don't remember which companies were involved, but in California and Nevada trying to use a debit card required a deposit ($500 or so?).
  - phone8675309 3y ago
    Not true - Alamo was happy to rent me a car with a debit card with proof of a round-trip ticket on a recent trip.
lxgr 3y ago
Were credit cards accepted as ID? Arguably, neither are an identification method; they’re payment cards!
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  Yes. They used a commercial verification service for that program. One that can't be bothered to verify using all forms of payment cards.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Any chance they were actually pulling and using credit reports for this? That would explain debit cards not working. I’m not aware of any name/identity verification method natively based on Visa/Mastercard payment cards.
    - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
      LexisNexis has a service for accessing electronic police reports for a fee. New York requires parties to a report to have free access. The process you follow involves purchasing the report to confirm your ID and then that is refunded. A debit card works for that.
tiborsaas 3y ago
Is this another US problem? I have no problem using debit anywhere in Europe.
- paxys 3y ago
  There is no problem using debit anywhere in the US as well. In fact in lots of places (like gas stations and small restaurants) you get a discount for using debit cards over credit.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> debit cards get treated as second class payment In what way?

latchkey 3y ago
Usually the processing fee is passed onto the user.
vajrabum 3y ago
Legal tender for all debts public and private.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Credit cards aren’t legal tender either. And making cards legal tender would be quite absurd, since it would require anyone being owed any money to get a terminal and card acceptance contract in case their debtor decides to collect some credit card points.
- callalex 3y ago
  The key word is “debts”. A purchase is not a debt.
  - _v7gu 3y ago
    Only technically, a purchase is two debts: delivery if the good and delivery of the money.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
Debit is problematic at gas stations and some stores that prompt you to select debit or credit and then lock you out if you select debit. You don't see MasterCard threatening to cut off credit payments here. That's unequal treatment. If their issue is really with federal compliance they should cut off all payment processing. What they really want is the sweet merchant fees they lose out on when debit payment is used.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > Debit is problematic at gas stations and some stores that prompt you to select debit or credit and then lock you out if you select debit. Merchants aren’t required to let you make that choice, so this is probably a misconfigured terminal. And if a debit card works when you press “credit”, what’s the issue? There is almost never a benefit to you for making that (quite technical) choice yourself.
- loeg 3y ago
  > You don't see MasterCard threatening to cut off credit payments here. This is because these places can't accept credit card payments, only cash. Debit cards (and cash) were the only payment they accepted.
  - callalex 3y ago
    To clarify further, no cannabis seller can accept debit cards as a payment method. Instead they can certify their machines as mobile ATM providers that just happen to let you withdraw an amount of cash that just happens to be approximately the same amount of money you might happen to want to pay to the person holding the mobile ATM terminal plus a modest tip. (Yes, really, this is how the industry functions).
- Ekaros 3y ago
  How hard can it be... Here even contactless payment on debit works perfectly well on any gas station. Show card, maximum of 50€ gets charged. Then fill up either you get only 50€ worth of gas or soon enough the sum is lowered to what you got...
dagurp 3y ago
Renting a car is impossible without a credit card AFAIK
- landemva 3y ago
  Budget will rent if I use one debit card but not another.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Don't remember which companies were involved, but in California and Nevada trying to use a debit card required a deposit ($500 or so?).
- phone8675309 3y ago
  Not true - Alamo was happy to rent me a car with a debit card with proof of a round-trip ticket on a recent trip.

lxgr 3y ago

Were credit cards accepted as ID? Arguably, neither are an identification method; they’re payment cards!

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
Yes. They used a commercial verification service for that program. One that can't be bothered to verify using all forms of payment cards.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Any chance they were actually pulling and using credit reports for this? That would explain debit cards not working. I’m not aware of any name/identity verification method natively based on Visa/Mastercard payment cards.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    LexisNexis has a service for accessing electronic police reports for a fee. New York requires parties to a report to have free access. The process you follow involves purchasing the report to confirm your ID and then that is refunded. A debit card works for that.

tiborsaas 3y ago

Is this another US problem? I have no problem using debit anywhere in Europe.

paxys 3y ago
There is no problem using debit anywhere in the US as well. In fact in lots of places (like gas stations and small restaurants) you get a discount for using debit cards over credit.