5 ms·

The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? Why would people not want to be a part of that? I sure do, I want to be safer when drivin

by valval 3y ago

The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? Why would people not want to be a part of that? I sure do, I want to be safer when driving.

thebruce87m 3y ago
> The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? There is no independently verifiable data that supports this.
- valval 3y ago
  There is no independently verifiable data in a great many publications of various large companies for obvious reasons. That’s why they’re legally forbidden from releasing bogus data.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    Let me phrase it another way: There is no data that you should trust that says Autopilot is safer than a human driver under the same conditions.
    - valval 3y ago
      What you should and shouldn’t trust is entirely subjective, I have no reason not to trust the stats Tesla has released. If Autopilot wasn’t good enough to warrant releasing those stats, they simply wouldn’t. You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying.
      - thebruce87m 3y ago
        > You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying. I don’t need to discredit it, my default is to not believe it unless there has been verification by an independent body. Over time you learn to look at the wording of claims from a company and read between the lines. They may have cherry picked some stat under certain conditions but it won’t be representative - the small print will read stuff like “highway miles, during daylight hours when compared to similar vehicles” which gives them a bunch of wiggle room. Many companies claim things in their marketing material, I’ve never know anyone to take it at face value but todays the day I guess.
nickthegreek 3y ago
I think we just saw that these cars will blow through this red light… maybe even 100% of the time. That doesn’t align with your “demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver.” You want to pretend like we jumped to the engineering end and it’s a solved problem. It’s not. I know if my family drove through this intersection daily, I wouldn’t find the risk as acceptable.
- valval 3y ago
  There are all kinds of spots around the country where FSD will make mistakes with a high likelihood. Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t. It’s part of the contract for beta users that you have to pay full attention to the road ahead and be ready to react at all times if the system makes a mistake. In the case of the clip in OP, they deliberately didn’t react and should be kicked off the program by Tesla and fined by the police.
  - sidibe 3y ago
    >Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t Because they are way more likely to be engaged on the easy miles and they are still bad enough that the driver pays attention
    - valval 3y ago
      The driver literally has to pay attention by contract. It’s not a matter of if the system is good enough or not.
    - daveguy 3y ago
      And if the accident happens right after the driver panic brakes, thereby taking control of the car... Does that count as an FSD accident or a driver-in-control accident? I would be willing to bet, with Tesla's fraudulent ways, they are counting a brake before an accident a driver-in-control accident. They should be required to publish the time-since-FSD of every single accident in a Tesla vehicle.

by valval 3y ago

The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? Why would people not want to be a part of that? I sure do, I want to be safer when driving.

thebruce87m 3y ago

> The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? There is no independently verifiable data that supports this.

valval 3y ago
There is no independently verifiable data in a great many publications of various large companies for obvious reasons. That’s why they’re legally forbidden from releasing bogus data.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Let me phrase it another way: There is no data that you should trust that says Autopilot is safer than a human driver under the same conditions.
  - valval 3y ago
    What you should and shouldn’t trust is entirely subjective, I have no reason not to trust the stats Tesla has released. If Autopilot wasn’t good enough to warrant releasing those stats, they simply wouldn’t. You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying.
    - thebruce87m 3y ago
      > You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying. I don’t need to discredit it, my default is to not believe it unless there has been verification by an independent body. Over time you learn to look at the wording of claims from a company and read between the lines. They may have cherry picked some stat under certain conditions but it won’t be representative - the small print will read stuff like “highway miles, during daylight hours when compared to similar vehicles” which gives them a bunch of wiggle room. Many companies claim things in their marketing material, I’ve never know anyone to take it at face value but todays the day I guess.

nickthegreek 3y ago

I think we just saw that these cars will blow through this red light… maybe even 100% of the time. That doesn’t align with your “demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver.” You want to pretend like we jumped to the engineering end and it’s a solved problem. It’s not. I know if my family drove through this intersection daily, I wouldn’t find the risk as acceptable.

valval 3y ago
There are all kinds of spots around the country where FSD will make mistakes with a high likelihood. Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t. It’s part of the contract for beta users that you have to pay full attention to the road ahead and be ready to react at all times if the system makes a mistake. In the case of the clip in OP, they deliberately didn’t react and should be kicked off the program by Tesla and fined by the police.
- sidibe 3y ago
  >Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t Because they are way more likely to be engaged on the easy miles and they are still bad enough that the driver pays attention
  - valval 3y ago
    The driver literally has to pay attention by contract. It’s not a matter of if the system is good enough or not.
  - daveguy 3y ago
    And if the accident happens right after the driver panic brakes, thereby taking control of the car... Does that count as an FSD accident or a driver-in-control accident? I would be willing to bet, with Tesla's fraudulent ways, they are counting a brake before an accident a driver-in-control accident. They should be required to publish the time-since-FSD of every single accident in a Tesla vehicle.