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I'd love to chat with the gnome guys. They miss so much and I'm not sure why. 1) The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. Ne

I'd love to chat with the gnome guys. They miss so much and I'm not sure why. 1) The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. Never mind how X apps took on this responsibility, under Wayland the app should not know its context. It's also not right to put the burden on every app when it could be in the WM to provide consistency and unburden all the other devs. 2) I use a 55" screen where the "desktop" metaphor is apt. Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway. 3) I have space for the launcher to be ever present. I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded. I do like the idea they mention of a maximum sensible size for an app. That could be useful regardless of all the other stuff. I feel like tabs on browsers were invented because no desktop environment or GUI toolkit ever came up with a decent solution for multiple instances/documents. This has improved but I suspect there is more that could be done.

mulmen 3y ago
> Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway. Strong disagree here. I use a 38" Ultrawide and I have 10 workspaces open at the moment. All of them dedicated to a single in-flight task. If a workspace is a desktop multiple workspaces is a workshop.
- demizer 3y ago
  I have keybindings that go directly to the workspace that I am interested in. Fifteen years ago I dedicated 10 workspaces to fullscreen tasks I do daily and now I can go to my browser with a keybinding or to my code editor with another. I have been on workmates computers with tens to a hundred windows open and I am dumbfounded on how they get anything done. A task should operate on one workspace and there should be keybindings to go directly to that task. Of course I am a pro power user and normies would be horrified at my workflow. Gnome devs try to consider everyone and sometimes miss the mark and make everyone unhappy. So I am going to volunteer to use their concept and provide feedback.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    I have similar setup. One improvement that I really liked (for those few times where I don't use the usual map) is that rofi have alt+tab search in window titles which helps massively to find any temporary app or terminal I might've run somewhere.
jancsika 3y ago
> I feel like tabs on browsers were invented because no desktop environment or GUI toolkit ever came up with a decent solution for multiple instances/documents. This has improved but I suspect there is more that could be done. Alternatively, I would love a window manager that is just a maximized Firefox patched to display all native apps inside browser tabs. :)
- garou 3y ago
  Sway (i3) can stack any program as tabs.
- somat 3y ago
  True, really it should be the window managers job to provide tabs. I think browser tabs came about because people wanted many browser windows open and the windows desktop was not really providing an ideal user experience, so the browser vendors said "fine we will do it our self". But really, if done correctly every application could be tabbed, and the application would not have to do anything.
pmontra 3y ago
There are extensions to disable any kind of animation. I use the Windows key to open the app list/search and hot keys to move between virtual desktops (activities, but I use the la name). Nothing moves and resizes on my desktop.
mmphosis 3y ago
I agree with you. 1) Always remember location and size hashed by monitor(s) arrangement. 2) Get rid of "Maximize" and go back to "Zoom" where I can switch between 2 positions/sizes: one is the smallest window that will fit and layout everything perfectly without scroll bars, and the other is point 1) remembered location/size. 3) Simple floating panels/palettes/icons. Nothing jarring. One menu bar: * Application File Edit View Help Wed 3:59 PM ⏻ Software Update... Switch User - Log Out... File Browser - Web Browser Restart Text Edit Shut Down Terminal
ilyt 3y ago
I think that describes aptly why no paradigm is fitting for everyone... > 1) The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. Never mind how X apps took on this responsibility, under Wayland the app should not know its context. It's also not right to put the burden on every app when it could be in the WM to provide consistency and unburden all the other devs. I want to explicitly put them where I want (on which virtual desktop) and have it always be the same on reboot. If I want to change the default location, I want to change it explicitly. Reason is because then I can have single shortcut that always leads me to the right VD with right app. <Super> + 4 is always IDR, <Super> + 2 is always Firefox etc. and I don't want that to change because yesterday for work I did I needed a bit different layout temporarily. > 2) I use a 55" screen where the "desktop" metaphor is apt. Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway. I'd probably just had it split it in tiles. I never want to move a window and I never need to have space in-between them. I want to put apps that I interact with constantly near eachother and references I use close, and preferable just have easy keyboard/mouse way move/swap them around My current setup is just 2 fullscreen apps on 2 monitors. I'd sometimes want third (or big one split into tiles), but that's about it. I sometimes split one in 2, say 2 pieces of documentation, or chat + something else but many apps benefit from full wide on 24 inch screen. > 3) I have space for the launcher to be ever present. I don't get the point of launcher ever showing up uninvinted I don't see the need of launcher ever sharing same space with apps, it's not like they interact. It's for launching. alt+f2, type what I need to run, enter, that's entire interaction required. I guess I wouldn't mind if some extra widgets could live there like rss/mail/weather, as there is plenty of space, but it is for launching, so it should be overlay So, what is someone's idea of perfect desktop might be hell for someone's else. It's basically no size fits all. > I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded. At this point I think GNOME guys are looking for reason they are still employed and change shit for no good reason.
- kaba0 3y ago
  > > I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded. At this point I think GNOME guys are looking for reason they are still employed and change shit for no good reason. Or you know, people are visual - it’s much easier to find that open document based on its outline than based on YourEditor - A… title and an icon that is shared by many windows.
accelbred 3y ago
> The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. As long as its easily disabled. I used to have to patch firefox so it would open where I opened it and not move itself to where it was closed.
3v1n0 3y ago
> I'd love to chat with the gnome guys. They miss so much and I'm not sure why. Feel free to join https://matrix.to/#/#design:gnome.org https://matrix.to/#/#design:gnome.org Tobias will be happy to discuss with you (and everybody else who has constructive insights)

mulmen 3y ago

> Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway. Strong disagree here. I use a 38" Ultrawide and I have 10 workspaces open at the moment. All of them dedicated to a single in-flight task. If a workspace is a desktop multiple workspaces is a workshop.

demizer 3y ago
I have keybindings that go directly to the workspace that I am interested in. Fifteen years ago I dedicated 10 workspaces to fullscreen tasks I do daily and now I can go to my browser with a keybinding or to my code editor with another. I have been on workmates computers with tens to a hundred windows open and I am dumbfounded on how they get anything done. A task should operate on one workspace and there should be keybindings to go directly to that task. Of course I am a pro power user and normies would be horrified at my workflow. Gnome devs try to consider everyone and sometimes miss the mark and make everyone unhappy. So I am going to volunteer to use their concept and provide feedback.
- ilyt 3y ago
  I have similar setup. One improvement that I really liked (for those few times where I don't use the usual map) is that rofi have alt+tab search in window titles which helps massively to find any temporary app or terminal I might've run somewhere.

jancsika 3y ago

> I feel like tabs on browsers were invented because no desktop environment or GUI toolkit ever came up with a decent solution for multiple instances/documents. This has improved but I suspect there is more that could be done. Alternatively, I would love a window manager that is just a maximized Firefox patched to display all native apps inside browser tabs. :)

garou 3y ago
Sway (i3) can stack any program as tabs.
somat 3y ago
True, really it should be the window managers job to provide tabs. I think browser tabs came about because people wanted many browser windows open and the windows desktop was not really providing an ideal user experience, so the browser vendors said "fine we will do it our self". But really, if done correctly every application could be tabbed, and the application would not have to do anything.

pmontra 3y ago

There are extensions to disable any kind of animation. I use the Windows key to open the app list/search and hot keys to move between virtual desktops (activities, but I use the la name). Nothing moves and resizes on my desktop.

mmphosis 3y ago

I agree with you. 1) Always remember location and size hashed by monitor(s) arrangement. 2) Get rid of "Maximize" and go back to "Zoom" where I can switch between 2 positions/sizes: one is the smallest window that will fit and layout everything perfectly without scroll bars, and the other is point 1) remembered location/size. 3) Simple floating panels/palettes/icons. Nothing jarring. One menu bar: * Application File Edit View Help Wed 3:59 PM ⏻ Software Update... Switch User - Log Out... File Browser - Web Browser Restart Text Edit Shut Down Terminal

ilyt 3y ago

I think that describes aptly why no paradigm is fitting for everyone... > 1) The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. Never mind how X apps took on this responsibility, under Wayland the app should not know its context. It's also not right to put the burden on every app when it could be in the WM to provide consistency and unburden all the other devs. I want to explicitly put them where I want (on which virtual desktop) and have it always be the same on reboot. If I want to change the default location, I want to change it explicitly. Reason is because then I can have single shortcut that always leads me to the right VD with right app. <Super> + 4 is always IDR, <Super> + 2 is always Firefox etc. and I don't want that to change because yesterday for work I did I needed a bit different layout temporarily. > 2) I use a 55" screen where the "desktop" metaphor is apt. Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway. I'd probably just had it split it in tiles. I never want to move a window and I never need to have space in-between them. I want to put apps that I interact with constantly near eachother and references I use close, and preferable just have easy keyboard/mouse way move/swap them around My current setup is just 2 fullscreen apps on 2 monitors. I'd sometimes want third (or big one split into tiles), but that's about it. I sometimes split one in 2, say 2 pieces of documentation, or chat + something else but many apps benefit from full wide on 24 inch screen. > 3) I have space for the launcher to be ever present. I don't get the point of launcher ever showing up uninvinted I don't see the need of launcher ever sharing same space with apps, it's not like they interact. It's for launching. alt+f2, type what I need to run, enter, that's entire interaction required. I guess I wouldn't mind if some extra widgets could live there like rss/mail/weather, as there is plenty of space, but it is for launching, so it should be overlay So, what is someone's idea of perfect desktop might be hell for someone's else. It's basically no size fits all. > I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded. At this point I think GNOME guys are looking for reason they are still employed and change shit for no good reason.

kaba0 3y ago
> > I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded. At this point I think GNOME guys are looking for reason they are still employed and change shit for no good reason. Or you know, people are visual - it’s much easier to find that open document based on its outline than based on YourEditor - A… title and an icon that is shared by many windows.

accelbred 3y ago

> The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. As long as its easily disabled. I used to have to patch firefox so it would open where I opened it and not move itself to where it was closed.

3v1n0 3y ago

> I'd love to chat with the gnome guys. They miss so much and I'm not sure why. Feel free to join https://matrix.to/#/#design:gnome.org https://matrix.to/#/#design:gnome.org Tobias will be happy to discuss with you (and everybody else who has constructive insights)