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So the road was pretty shittily marked, I was having a hard time figuring out wtf was going on (within the limits of the mediocre video), so its something that

• nickthegreek 3y ago
  I think they could see that no cars were coming from their vantage, so breaking wasn't necessary from a safety point. You are kinda underselling the whole "something that needs to be worked on." since you know... its in a bunch of cars currently on the road with other people who might not like to be part of the experiment.
  • valval 3y ago
    The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? Why would people not want to be a part of that? I sure do, I want to be safer when driving.
    • thebruce87m 3y ago
      > The experiment that demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver? There is no independently verifiable data that supports this.
      • valval 3y ago
        There is no independently verifiable data in a great many publications of various large companies for obvious reasons. That’s why they’re legally forbidden from releasing bogus data.
        • thebruce87m 3y ago
          Let me phrase it another way: There is no data that you should trust that says Autopilot is safer than a human driver under the same conditions.
          • valval 3y ago
            What you should and shouldn’t trust is entirely subjective, I have no reason not to trust the stats Tesla has released. If Autopilot wasn’t good enough to warrant releasing those stats, they simply wouldn’t. You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying.
            • thebruce87m 3y ago
              > You’ll have to do some deeper statistical analysis to discredit what they’re saying. I don’t need to discredit it, my default is to not believe it unless there has been verification by an independent body. Over time you learn to look at the wording of claims from a company and read between the lines. They may have cherry picked some stat under certain conditions but it won’t be representative - the small print will read stuff like “highway miles, during daylight hours when compared to similar vehicles” which gives them a bunch of wiggle room. Many companies claim things in their marketing material, I’ve never know anyone to take it at face value but todays the day I guess.
    • nickthegreek 3y ago
      I think we just saw that these cars will blow through this red light… maybe even 100% of the time. That doesn’t align with your “demonstrably makes cars safer than a human driver.” You want to pretend like we jumped to the engineering end and it’s a solved problem. It’s not. I know if my family drove through this intersection daily, I wouldn’t find the risk as acceptable.
      • valval 3y ago
        There are all kinds of spots around the country where FSD will make mistakes with a high likelihood. Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t. It’s part of the contract for beta users that you have to pay full attention to the road ahead and be ready to react at all times if the system makes a mistake. In the case of the clip in OP, they deliberately didn’t react and should be kicked off the program by Tesla and fined by the police.
        • sidibe 3y ago
          >Tesla has already released stats that plainly state that while autopilot or FSD are engaged, accidents are way less likely to happen than if they weren’t Because they are way more likely to be engaged on the easy miles and they are still bad enough that the driver pays attention
          • valval 3y ago
            The driver literally has to pay attention by contract. It’s not a matter of if the system is good enough or not.
          • daveguy 3y ago
            And if the accident happens right after the driver panic brakes, thereby taking control of the car... Does that count as an FSD accident or a driver-in-control accident? I would be willing to bet, with Tesla's fraudulent ways, they are counting a brake before an accident a driver-in-control accident. They should be required to publish the time-since-FSD of every single accident in a Tesla vehicle.
  • cchance 3y ago
    if there were cars entering the intersection crossing the car would have detected that and hit breaks also, it detects cross traffic as well, which overrides a "green" light intersection from a confused tilt of the light
• joshstrange 3y ago
  Even more strange, it was the second time it had done this. The person filming went back and did it again. At that point I feel like the correct response is "Yep, see, it just did it again" but instead it was played up for the video. That said, I'm not pro-Tesla nor do I think FSD is ready, just that this is a bad example.
• tharkun__ 3y ago
  How is that road shittily marked? I could see, even from the crap video, exactly where to drive. Perfectly fine double lines in the middle, perfectly visible edge markings on the right side. Perfectly visible red light. Yeah there's a crappy slight bend right before the light and before you turn that bend that puts you head on with the red light telling you to stop, you're basically going straight towards a green light that's meant for the road coming from the right. I bet it got confused by that.
  • belltaco 3y ago
    The driver, who had been through the intersection earlier, says the light is green when it's red.
    • tharkun__ 3y ago
      Which says something about his ability at this whole thing I guess, if he can't get it right even after having been through it. So, I guess you are saying it's not just shittily marked (which it's not) but also the lights are confusing, I re-watched it to check that. The red light comes into view first actually and only then does the green one come into play, but fair enough that this doesn't say much. As soon as you're past the big bend and going straight towards the light (i.e. before the final bend) I can clearly see one red light that the car and driver are facing head on and another green light, which is slightly turned on an angle from the car/driver. As we get closer, we can even see that they did this on purpose, i.e. the red light is purposefully not right above the road and facing the road head on (which would only be the tiny part of if after the slight right bend) but is clearly meant for the people coming around the big bend, so they can see from afar that there's a red light. Then as you turn the slight right bend before turning left onto the main road, you have the regular lights as you would see at any t-intersection and they're clearly red. Also any driver that is unclear of what the lights mean should simply slow down so they have more time to survey the situation, which if they interpret all the perfectly visible lights correctly at a late point only, they are slow enough that breaking would stop them where they should stop. Instead it seems that people are siding with the auto-pilot, which thinks that he very clearly has a green light and takes the intersection at speed. It barely slowed down from 30 to 27 before taking the actual left turn of the intersection so it seems to have been very sure of what it's seeing. So if people are saying that this is an unclearly lit intersection, the auto-pilot disagrees and it thinks that it very clearly is that green light that's meant for the road its on.
• leoh 3y ago
  Some folks get upset when something is reasonably experienced as outrageous and not merely to agitate others. Some folks also seem to find it reasonable to let others know when something is unsafe. Seen in that light, I don’t really see an issue and don’t think it’s cool to diminish the video by suggesting it was merely to produce outrage. I, for one, don’t want to run into a wayward Tesla while on the highway.
• me_me_me 3y ago
  Ahhh, we will test in production and see what happens...
• suction 3y ago
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