4 ms·

I'm talking about states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. Again I am not looking to get into an argument over the val

I'm talking about states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. Again I am not looking to get into an argument over the validity of "gender affirming care" for children. My view is that states should not be able to take children away for this or for schools to be able to keep this knowledge from parents. Others may disagree and that's fine, we are not going to solve it by screaming at each other on HN. The question was asked and I provided an answer.

pstuart 3y ago
I haven't seen anything to that effect, only the opposite: https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allo... My search came up empty for examples of what you stated as a fact -- would you be so kind as to share a source that confirms your concern?
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-children/13377700/ https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-c... "The initial legislation said courts deciding custody cases must consider whether each parent affirmed the child's gender. AB 957 encourages parents who support their TGI children by "making it clear that affirming a child's gender identity is part of the health, safety, and welfare of the child." It also allows courts to consider a parent's affirmation of their child's gender identity when making decisions about visitation and custody." https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-students-gender-identity/12950847/ https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-stu... "Jessica Tapia was fired for refusing to follow a state law that forbids teachers from talking to parents about their child's gender choices without consent from the student." https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medical-transgender-interventions-on-minors-without-parental-consent/ https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medic... "An act relating to supporting youth,” or Senate Bill 5599, allows host homes for runaway youth “to house youth without parental permission.” Furthermore, the host homes do not need to notify parents about where their kids are or if they are getting medical interventions “" Plenty more
zogrodea 3y ago
Here is evidence of the above claim for anyone outside the US (like me) since it might be unfamiliar to us. https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-for-your-kids https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-fo...
pstuart 3y ago
I'm not screaming and my intention is to be respectful in my engagement. The government taking kids from families is an incredibly delicate subject. I think that we can all agree that it should never happen with one important exception: if the child is in danger by their own family. I think we could come up with some horrific scenarios that is the (unfortunate) right thing to do. It should done only in the most extreme cases, with extreme oversight and opportunities for redress etc. There have been miscarriages of justice in this in the past, so it would be naive to say that the system is perfect and nobody should be bothered if and when it happens. That said, taking kids away to allow them to transition (at a superficial level) does seem to be crossing a line. I'm going to have to look deeper into the actual legislation because I also am aware there's a lot of disinformation in this subject. I know three families with trans kids. One happened very early (I had no idea she was trans until I was told), the other after going away to college, and the third is a teenager that may or may not be but they're rolling with whatever way the child sees fit. Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, but not all kids are so lucky. Some parents are not so accepting and will do everything to stop them, going as far as disowning them (or killing them). https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary-siblings-shot-death-mother-charged https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary... Many runaways leave home because of sexual abuse: https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.html https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.ht... And finally, I'd like to point out that the reason that the GOP loves demonizing trans people is because it's a highly effective tool to emotionally manipulate voters using fear and hate. They did it will gays a generation before, it's not a new trick. This is a nuanced subject and requires nuanced reasoning.
- triffil 3y ago
  > Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, Sounds to me like they're accepting them for who they aren't. Which is a big problem, as these kids are going to have an awful shock when they grow older and realize that most people in the outside world don't go along with the lie that man can become women and women can become men. To gaslight these children into believing otherwise is terrible parenting bordering on child abuse. Especially if these kids had so-called 'gender-affirming' medical or surgical interventions inflicted upon them. It's awful really.

pstuart 3y ago

I haven't seen anything to that effect, only the opposite: https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allo... My search came up empty for examples of what you stated as a fact -- would you be so kind as to share a source that confirms your concern?

wonderwonder 3y ago
https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-children/13377700/ https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-c... "The initial legislation said courts deciding custody cases must consider whether each parent affirmed the child's gender. AB 957 encourages parents who support their TGI children by "making it clear that affirming a child's gender identity is part of the health, safety, and welfare of the child." It also allows courts to consider a parent's affirmation of their child's gender identity when making decisions about visitation and custody." https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-students-gender-identity/12950847/ https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-stu... "Jessica Tapia was fired for refusing to follow a state law that forbids teachers from talking to parents about their child's gender choices without consent from the student." https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medical-transgender-interventions-on-minors-without-parental-consent/ https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medic... "An act relating to supporting youth,” or Senate Bill 5599, allows host homes for runaway youth “to house youth without parental permission.” Furthermore, the host homes do not need to notify parents about where their kids are or if they are getting medical interventions “" Plenty more

zogrodea 3y ago

Here is evidence of the above claim for anyone outside the US (like me) since it might be unfamiliar to us. https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-for-your-kids https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-fo...

pstuart 3y ago

I'm not screaming and my intention is to be respectful in my engagement. The government taking kids from families is an incredibly delicate subject. I think that we can all agree that it should never happen with one important exception: if the child is in danger by their own family. I think we could come up with some horrific scenarios that is the (unfortunate) right thing to do. It should done only in the most extreme cases, with extreme oversight and opportunities for redress etc. There have been miscarriages of justice in this in the past, so it would be naive to say that the system is perfect and nobody should be bothered if and when it happens. That said, taking kids away to allow them to transition (at a superficial level) does seem to be crossing a line. I'm going to have to look deeper into the actual legislation because I also am aware there's a lot of disinformation in this subject. I know three families with trans kids. One happened very early (I had no idea she was trans until I was told), the other after going away to college, and the third is a teenager that may or may not be but they're rolling with whatever way the child sees fit. Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, but not all kids are so lucky. Some parents are not so accepting and will do everything to stop them, going as far as disowning them (or killing them). https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary-siblings-shot-death-mother-charged https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary... Many runaways leave home because of sexual abuse: https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.html https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.ht... And finally, I'd like to point out that the reason that the GOP loves demonizing trans people is because it's a highly effective tool to emotionally manipulate voters using fear and hate. They did it will gays a generation before, it's not a new trick. This is a nuanced subject and requires nuanced reasoning.

triffil 3y ago
> Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, Sounds to me like they're accepting them for who they aren't. Which is a big problem, as these kids are going to have an awful shock when they grow older and realize that most people in the outside world don't go along with the lie that man can become women and women can become men. To gaslight these children into believing otherwise is terrible parenting bordering on child abuse. Especially if these kids had so-called 'gender-affirming' medical or surgical interventions inflicted upon them. It's awful really.