5 ms·

> find myself moving increasingly to the right since starting to work from home ~5 years ago. why?

tekla 3y ago
When the overton window shifts, and you don't shift with it, by definition you head to the right towards the center. I myself find myself careening to the right for a laundry list of reasons, and I live in a major city.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  This is my personal view of my rightward shift as well
wonderwonder 3y ago
I feel like the left has moved very far left and I'm still where I started. I don't like most Republican politicians on a personal level but a lot of the policies being put forward by the left involve stripping parental rights and allowing for children to be taken based on political ideals and for schools to keep secrets from parents. I am very much against this. I'm also not a fan of what seems to very much be open discrimination and degradation of straight white men. Respectfully , I post this not to get into an argument or to hear reasons why I'm wrong or a terrible person, so please refrain from the personal attacks those who choose to reply. I'm just answering the straight forward question of "why?" from my personal view of the world.
- pstuart 3y ago
  > allowing for children to be taken based on political ideals Could you clarify this?
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    I'm talking about states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. Again I am not looking to get into an argument over the validity of "gender affirming care" for children. My view is that states should not be able to take children away for this or for schools to be able to keep this knowledge from parents. Others may disagree and that's fine, we are not going to solve it by screaming at each other on HN. The question was asked and I provided an answer.
    - pstuart 3y ago
      I haven't seen anything to that effect, only the opposite: https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allo... My search came up empty for examples of what you stated as a fact -- would you be so kind as to share a source that confirms your concern?
      - wonderwonder 3y ago
        https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-children/13377700/ https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-c... "The initial legislation said courts deciding custody cases must consider whether each parent affirmed the child's gender. AB 957 encourages parents who support their TGI children by "making it clear that affirming a child's gender identity is part of the health, safety, and welfare of the child." It also allows courts to consider a parent's affirmation of their child's gender identity when making decisions about visitation and custody." https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-students-gender-identity/12950847/ https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-stu... "Jessica Tapia was fired for refusing to follow a state law that forbids teachers from talking to parents about their child's gender choices without consent from the student." https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medical-transgender-interventions-on-minors-without-parental-consent/ https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medic... "An act relating to supporting youth,” or Senate Bill 5599, allows host homes for runaway youth “to house youth without parental permission.” Furthermore, the host homes do not need to notify parents about where their kids are or if they are getting medical interventions “" Plenty more
    - zogrodea 3y ago
      Here is evidence of the above claim for anyone outside the US (like me) since it might be unfamiliar to us. https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-for-your-kids https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-fo...
    - pstuart 3y ago
      I'm not screaming and my intention is to be respectful in my engagement. The government taking kids from families is an incredibly delicate subject. I think that we can all agree that it should never happen with one important exception: if the child is in danger by their own family. I think we could come up with some horrific scenarios that is the (unfortunate) right thing to do. It should done only in the most extreme cases, with extreme oversight and opportunities for redress etc. There have been miscarriages of justice in this in the past, so it would be naive to say that the system is perfect and nobody should be bothered if and when it happens. That said, taking kids away to allow them to transition (at a superficial level) does seem to be crossing a line. I'm going to have to look deeper into the actual legislation because I also am aware there's a lot of disinformation in this subject. I know three families with trans kids. One happened very early (I had no idea she was trans until I was told), the other after going away to college, and the third is a teenager that may or may not be but they're rolling with whatever way the child sees fit. Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, but not all kids are so lucky. Some parents are not so accepting and will do everything to stop them, going as far as disowning them (or killing them). https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary-siblings-shot-death-mother-charged https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary... Many runaways leave home because of sexual abuse: https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.html https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.ht... And finally, I'd like to point out that the reason that the GOP loves demonizing trans people is because it's a highly effective tool to emotionally manipulate voters using fear and hate. They did it will gays a generation before, it's not a new trick. This is a nuanced subject and requires nuanced reasoning.
- loudmax 3y ago
  I recommend tracking actual policies instead of asinine culture war nonsense on social media. Never mind liking or disliking politicians on a personal level, look at what policy objectives a politician is trying to achieve. Don't take democracy for granted.
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here, sorry. I stated I don't like actual policies and while I don't like certain politicians on a personal level I care more about the policies than the politician. So not really following, my apologies; could you clarify? The only social media I have is HN.
    - loudmax 3y ago
      What actual policies are you opposed to? And how are you ranking these policies? You mentioned states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. What is the actual policy here, and when would it apply? The scenario sounds like: a minor wishes to transition and the parents are opposed, the kid wants to run away, and the state takes the side of the child rather than the side of the parents. This is the exact scenario you described, correct? I think I'm in agreement with you that I'd generally prefer state policy to side with the parents rather than the child in this case. Certainly so in the case of younger children, or when puberty blockers or elective surgery is involved. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that the state should never side with the minor. There are cases where it's better for the kid to be allowed to get away from their parents. Most Democrats and most Republicans will agree that it depends on the circumstance. This is why we have judges and a court system. But this is also the kind of issue that I think is blown far out of proportion to its merits. Transgenderism is just about the least important issue facing America and the world today. I strongly believe that most Americans are centrists. This goes for Democrats and Republicans. The problem is that so many on the left see Republicans as racist quasi-fascists and so many on the right see Democrats as woke socialists. Both of these views are wrong.
      - wonderwonder 3y ago

When the overton window shifts, and you don't shift with it, by definition you head to the right towards the center. I myself find myself careening to the right for a laundry list of reasons, and I live in a major city.

wonderwonder 3y ago
This is my personal view of my rightward shift as well

wonderwonder 3y ago

I feel like the left has moved very far left and I'm still where I started. I don't like most Republican politicians on a personal level but a lot of the policies being put forward by the left involve stripping parental rights and allowing for children to be taken based on political ideals and for schools to keep secrets from parents. I am very much against this. I'm also not a fan of what seems to very much be open discrimination and degradation of straight white men. Respectfully , I post this not to get into an argument or to hear reasons why I'm wrong or a terrible person, so please refrain from the personal attacks those who choose to reply. I'm just answering the straight forward question of "why?" from my personal view of the world.

pstuart 3y ago
> allowing for children to be taken based on political ideals Could you clarify this?
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  I'm talking about states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. Again I am not looking to get into an argument over the validity of "gender affirming care" for children. My view is that states should not be able to take children away for this or for schools to be able to keep this knowledge from parents. Others may disagree and that's fine, we are not going to solve it by screaming at each other on HN. The question was asked and I provided an answer.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    I haven't seen anything to that effect, only the opposite: https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allo... My search came up empty for examples of what you stated as a fact -- would you be so kind as to share a source that confirms your concern?
    - wonderwonder 3y ago
      https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-children/13377700/ https://abc7.com/california-proposed-bill-gender-affirming-c... "The initial legislation said courts deciding custody cases must consider whether each parent affirmed the child's gender. AB 957 encourages parents who support their TGI children by "making it clear that affirming a child's gender identity is part of the health, safety, and welfare of the child." It also allows courts to consider a parent's affirmation of their child's gender identity when making decisions about visitation and custody." https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-students-gender-identity/12950847/ https://abc7.com/jurupa-valley-high-school-teacher-fired-stu... "Jessica Tapia was fired for refusing to follow a state law that forbids teachers from talking to parents about their child's gender choices without consent from the student." https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medical-transgender-interventions-on-minors-without-parental-consent/ https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/washington-bill-to-allow-medic... "An act relating to supporting youth,” or Senate Bill 5599, allows host homes for runaway youth “to house youth without parental permission.” Furthermore, the host homes do not need to notify parents about where their kids are or if they are getting medical interventions “" Plenty more
  - zogrodea 3y ago
    Here is evidence of the above claim for anyone outside the US (like me) since it might be unfamiliar to us. https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-for-your-kids https://www.city-journal.org/article/when-the-state-comes-fo...
  - pstuart 3y ago
    I'm not screaming and my intention is to be respectful in my engagement. The government taking kids from families is an incredibly delicate subject. I think that we can all agree that it should never happen with one important exception: if the child is in danger by their own family. I think we could come up with some horrific scenarios that is the (unfortunate) right thing to do. It should done only in the most extreme cases, with extreme oversight and opportunities for redress etc. There have been miscarriages of justice in this in the past, so it would be naive to say that the system is perfect and nobody should be bothered if and when it happens. That said, taking kids away to allow them to transition (at a superficial level) does seem to be crossing a line. I'm going to have to look deeper into the actual legislation because I also am aware there's a lot of disinformation in this subject. I know three families with trans kids. One happened very early (I had no idea she was trans until I was told), the other after going away to college, and the third is a teenager that may or may not be but they're rolling with whatever way the child sees fit. Those kids are lucky, because their parents love them and accept them for who they are, but not all kids are so lucky. Some parents are not so accepting and will do everything to stop them, going as far as disowning them (or killing them). https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary-siblings-shot-death-mother-charged https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary... Many runaways leave home because of sexual abuse: https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.html https://childsafety.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/runaways.ht... And finally, I'd like to point out that the reason that the GOP loves demonizing trans people is because it's a highly effective tool to emotionally manipulate voters using fear and hate. They did it will gays a generation before, it's not a new trick. This is a nuanced subject and requires nuanced reasoning.
loudmax 3y ago
I recommend tracking actual policies instead of asinine culture war nonsense on social media. Never mind liking or disliking politicians on a personal level, look at what policy objectives a politician is trying to achieve. Don't take democracy for granted.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here, sorry. I stated I don't like actual policies and while I don't like certain politicians on a personal level I care more about the policies than the politician. So not really following, my apologies; could you clarify? The only social media I have is HN.
  - loudmax 3y ago
    What actual policies are you opposed to? And how are you ranking these policies? You mentioned states seizing kids if you wont allow children to begin transgender transitioning. What is the actual policy here, and when would it apply? The scenario sounds like: a minor wishes to transition and the parents are opposed, the kid wants to run away, and the state takes the side of the child rather than the side of the parents. This is the exact scenario you described, correct? I think I'm in agreement with you that I'd generally prefer state policy to side with the parents rather than the child in this case. Certainly so in the case of younger children, or when puberty blockers or elective surgery is involved. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that the state should never side with the minor. There are cases where it's better for the kid to be allowed to get away from their parents. Most Democrats and most Republicans will agree that it depends on the circumstance. This is why we have judges and a court system. But this is also the kind of issue that I think is blown far out of proportion to its merits. Transgenderism is just about the least important issue facing America and the world today. I strongly believe that most Americans are centrists. This goes for Democrats and Republicans. The problem is that so many on the left see Republicans as racist quasi-fascists and so many on the right see Democrats as woke socialists. Both of these views are wrong.
    - wonderwonder 3y ago