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It is a very good example though.... It's a horrendous site, but freedom of speech doesn't only apply to people I like or accept. Censorship always starts with
by Pannoniae 3y ago
It is a very good example though.... It's a horrendous site, but freedom of speech doesn't only apply to people I like or accept. Censorship always starts with the weakest and most hated target, then moves onto the less controversial ones.
- bonzini 3y ago> freedom of speech doesn't only apply to people I like or accept That is not the case in large parts of the world. WikiLeaks might be a better example.
- Pannoniae 3y ago"That is not the case in large parts of the world" that doesn't mean giving up and accepting it. "Are you defending X?"-type attacks are horrendous and just contribute to polarisation. Everyone deserves free speech, not just people I like.
- bonzini 3y agoIn large parts of the world people might not agree that everyone deserves free speech. Sorry for the early Godwin, but for example Nazi apology is not protected in Germany and I suspect most Germans agree that it shouldn't. Personally I am not sure why users and admins of Kiwifarms are not considered to be complicit in harassment and stalking (and also how in the world SWATting can basically go unpunished), which are crimes and not even protected by the first amendment. In contrast whistleblowing is protected.
- Pannoniae 3y agoI mean..... if it's a crime, okay, that's a law enforcement matter. If the kiwifarms site operators get convicted for harassment and stalking, that's fine by me. What is not fine by me is saying they don't deserve free speech even if they haven't committed a crime.
- bonzini 3y agoAnd again, this is anything but a universal value. Hate speech is not protected everywhere even in the absence of crimes, and many people over the world agree that it shouldn't.
- Pannoniae 3y agoExactly, and that's the problem. If people don't agree that it should be protected, then they don't really support free speech. Which is fine but then they shouldn't be surprised when the next person to be censored will be them.
- bonzini 3y agoWell those people just think the paradox of tolerance makes a sad but good point.