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This reminds me: I'm currently reading "At Home" (Bill Bryson), and he says that the mystery of how ancient peoples managed to turn teosinte into something wort

This reminds me: I'm currently reading "At Home" (Bill Bryson), and he says that the mystery of how ancient peoples managed to turn teosinte into something worth growing and eating. The scholarly research, e.g. [1] seems to be about maize spread, which is interesting, but it begs the question of how and why they made it into maize in the first place. Even more amusing, he says there was a conference at the Univ. of Illinois in 1969 on this, and it was so contentious (even getting personal at times) that no papers resulted. [1] https://archive.ph/Ub586 https://archive.ph/Ub586

tomcam 3y ago
A friend of mine was one hit in the crossfire of a maize conference and was never the same. Oddly he was there for a separate echidnae con but the maize folks just… jumped to conclusions and did what maize people do. For years after that, he talked only of Chapalote alleles. Eventually, he made it back to the duck billed platypus, a much diminished man.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  I guess there are at least two competing narratives? What are they? Somehow, it had to be selective breeding, since what other explanation is there? But WHY people did it, and what motivated them -- I don't know what evidence there could be. ChatGPT tell us: ====== The transformation of teosinte into maize (corn) is considered one of the most significant achievements in agricultural history. Mesoamericans, the indigenous peoples of present-day Mexico and Central America, were responsible for this domestication process, which occurred over thousands of years. This transformation involved careful selection and cultivation of teosinte plants with desirable traits, leading to the development of the maize we know today. Here are the key steps involved in how Mesoamericans turned teosinte into maize: Observation and Gathering: Mesoamerican communities initially observed wild teosinte plants growing in their natural habitats. Teosinte is a wild grass with small, tough kernels. Over time, they realized that some teosinte plants had slightly larger and more accessible kernels, which could potentially be useful for food. Selective Harvesting: They started to selectively harvest teosinte plants with the most desirable traits, such as larger seeds or fewer hard outer coverings. By saving and replanting the seeds from these chosen plants, they promoted the propagation of desired characteristics in the next generation. Controlled Planting: Mesoamericans began to cultivate teosinte near their settlements, providing a controlled environment for its growth. This controlled planting allowed them to have more influence over the breeding and development of teosinte plants with preferred traits. Repeated Selection and Domestication: Over generations, Mesoamericans continued to save seeds from the teosinte plants that exhibited the most favorable traits. Gradually, the teosinte plants underwent a process of domestication, with their characteristics evolving to become more like those of modern maize. Artificial Selection: The process of domestication also involved artificial selection, where humans intentionally chose plants with specific features and bred them together to enhance those traits in the next generation. Increasing Yield: As the domestication process progressed, the size and yield of the maize cobs increased, and the seeds became more substantial and easier to process as a food source. Cultural Significance: Maize became deeply ingrained in the culture and traditions of Mesoamerican societies. It played a crucial role in their diets and rituals and became a staple crop in their agricultural practices. This process of gradual domestication led to the transformation of teosinte into maize, creating a crop that was much more productive and nutritious for Mesoamerican communities. It's essential to note that this domestication was a result of generations of careful observation, selection, and cultivation by the indigenous people of the region, showcasing their knowledge and understanding of plant genetics and agriculture. ==== Honestly, I'd like to hear what's controversial about this.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Oh man, don't even try. Once you get in, there's no getting out of that maize.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      I see an article here /s Now I have to know. Update: I think Bryson is behind the times. In 1969, genetic sequencing hadn't advanced very much, and some people couldn't believe teosinte could become corn via selective breeding. However, they've lost the argument now.
tim333 3y ago
Passage from Bryson: If, ten thousand years ago, you had been asked to guess which would be the seat of the greatest future civilizations, you would probably have settled on some part of Central or South America on the basis of the amazing things they were doing with food there. Academics call this portion of the New World Mesoamerica, an accommodatingly vague term which could fairly be defined as Central America plus as much or as little of North and South America as are needed to support a hypothesis. Mesoamericans were the greatest cultivators in history, but of all their many horticultural innovations none was more lastingly important or unexpected than the creation of maize, or corn as it is known where I come from.* We still don’t have any idea how they did it. If you look at primitive forms of barley, rice or wheat set beside their modern counterparts you can see the affinities at once. But nothing in the wild remotely resembles modern corn. Genetically its nearest relative is a wispy grass called teosinte, but beyond the level of chromosomes there is no discernible kinship. Corn grows into a hefty cob on a single stalk and its grains are encased in a stiff, protective husk. An ear of teosinte, in comparison, is less than an inch long, huskless and grows on a multiplicity of stems. It is almost valueless as a food; one kernel of corn is more nutritious than a whole ear of teosinte. It is beyond us to divine how any people could have bred cobs of corn from such a thin and unpropitious plant – or even thought to try. Hoping to settle the matter once and for all, in 1969 food scientists from all over the world convened at ‘An Origin of Corn Conference’ at the University of Illinois, but the debates grew so vituperative and bitter, and at times personal, that the conference broke up in confusion, and no papers from it were ever published. Nothing like it has been attempted since. Scientists are now pretty sure, however, that corn was first domesticated on the plains of western Mexico and are in no doubt, thanks to the persuasive wonders of genetics, that somehow it was coaxed into being from teosinte, but how it was done remains as much a mystery as it ever did.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  That's the passage. I think I've disentangled this. They didn't have all the DNA tools we have now. Some people refused to accept what ChatGPT says below, which is the only possible way it could have happened. They insisted there had to be a third plant involved. I think I ignored his last sentence. But then he doesn't tell us what the controversy WAS.

tomcam 3y ago

A friend of mine was one hit in the crossfire of a maize conference and was never the same. Oddly he was there for a separate echidnae con but the maize folks just… jumped to conclusions and did what maize people do. For years after that, he talked only of Chapalote alleles. Eventually, he made it back to the duck billed platypus, a much diminished man.

AlbertCory 3y ago
I guess there are at least two competing narratives? What are they? Somehow, it had to be selective breeding, since what other explanation is there? But WHY people did it, and what motivated them -- I don't know what evidence there could be. ChatGPT tell us: ====== The transformation of teosinte into maize (corn) is considered one of the most significant achievements in agricultural history. Mesoamericans, the indigenous peoples of present-day Mexico and Central America, were responsible for this domestication process, which occurred over thousands of years. This transformation involved careful selection and cultivation of teosinte plants with desirable traits, leading to the development of the maize we know today. Here are the key steps involved in how Mesoamericans turned teosinte into maize: Observation and Gathering: Mesoamerican communities initially observed wild teosinte plants growing in their natural habitats. Teosinte is a wild grass with small, tough kernels. Over time, they realized that some teosinte plants had slightly larger and more accessible kernels, which could potentially be useful for food. Selective Harvesting: They started to selectively harvest teosinte plants with the most desirable traits, such as larger seeds or fewer hard outer coverings. By saving and replanting the seeds from these chosen plants, they promoted the propagation of desired characteristics in the next generation. Controlled Planting: Mesoamericans began to cultivate teosinte near their settlements, providing a controlled environment for its growth. This controlled planting allowed them to have more influence over the breeding and development of teosinte plants with preferred traits. Repeated Selection and Domestication: Over generations, Mesoamericans continued to save seeds from the teosinte plants that exhibited the most favorable traits. Gradually, the teosinte plants underwent a process of domestication, with their characteristics evolving to become more like those of modern maize. Artificial Selection: The process of domestication also involved artificial selection, where humans intentionally chose plants with specific features and bred them together to enhance those traits in the next generation. Increasing Yield: As the domestication process progressed, the size and yield of the maize cobs increased, and the seeds became more substantial and easier to process as a food source. Cultural Significance: Maize became deeply ingrained in the culture and traditions of Mesoamerican societies. It played a crucial role in their diets and rituals and became a staple crop in their agricultural practices. This process of gradual domestication led to the transformation of teosinte into maize, creating a crop that was much more productive and nutritious for Mesoamerican communities. It's essential to note that this domestication was a result of generations of careful observation, selection, and cultivation by the indigenous people of the region, showcasing their knowledge and understanding of plant genetics and agriculture. ==== Honestly, I'd like to hear what's controversial about this.
- stavros 3y ago
  Oh man, don't even try. Once you get in, there's no getting out of that maize.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    I see an article here /s Now I have to know. Update: I think Bryson is behind the times. In 1969, genetic sequencing hadn't advanced very much, and some people couldn't believe teosinte could become corn via selective breeding. However, they've lost the argument now.

tim333 3y ago

Passage from Bryson: If, ten thousand years ago, you had been asked to guess which would be the seat of the greatest future civilizations, you would probably have settled on some part of Central or South America on the basis of the amazing things they were doing with food there. Academics call this portion of the New World Mesoamerica, an accommodatingly vague term which could fairly be defined as Central America plus as much or as little of North and South America as are needed to support a hypothesis. Mesoamericans were the greatest cultivators in history, but of all their many horticultural innovations none was more lastingly important or unexpected than the creation of maize, or corn as it is known where I come from.* We still don’t have any idea how they did it. If you look at primitive forms of barley, rice or wheat set beside their modern counterparts you can see the affinities at once. But nothing in the wild remotely resembles modern corn. Genetically its nearest relative is a wispy grass called teosinte, but beyond the level of chromosomes there is no discernible kinship. Corn grows into a hefty cob on a single stalk and its grains are encased in a stiff, protective husk. An ear of teosinte, in comparison, is less than an inch long, huskless and grows on a multiplicity of stems. It is almost valueless as a food; one kernel of corn is more nutritious than a whole ear of teosinte. It is beyond us to divine how any people could have bred cobs of corn from such a thin and unpropitious plant – or even thought to try. Hoping to settle the matter once and for all, in 1969 food scientists from all over the world convened at ‘An Origin of Corn Conference’ at the University of Illinois, but the debates grew so vituperative and bitter, and at times personal, that the conference broke up in confusion, and no papers from it were ever published. Nothing like it has been attempted since. Scientists are now pretty sure, however, that corn was first domesticated on the plains of western Mexico and are in no doubt, thanks to the persuasive wonders of genetics, that somehow it was coaxed into being from teosinte, but how it was done remains as much a mystery as it ever did.

AlbertCory 3y ago
That's the passage. I think I've disentangled this. They didn't have all the DNA tools we have now. Some people refused to accept what ChatGPT says below, which is the only possible way it could have happened. They insisted there had to be a third plant involved. I think I ignored his last sentence. But then he doesn't tell us what the controversy WAS.