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Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am

Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. (Also, note that you can hold the Option key and click on the green plus in the upper-left corner you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". Even better, you can go to System Settings > Desktop & Dock > Double click a window's title bar to... and select "Zoom" to make this action even easier.)

pxc 3y ago
> you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". No, no you won't. Because 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization. It means something like 'make this window as big as the current contents it has open for viewing in each dimension, unless that's too big (and then just maximize it in that direction)'. Additionally it's just window resizing, not a window state. Which means that when you move the window again, it stays huge— so part of it must be offscreen— instead of snapping back to a reasonable unmaximized size. > So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. I'm not GP, but - there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces - you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window It adds unnecessary delays and distractions any time you want to use a different application on that screen, and it doesn't let you multitask on that screen.
- asoneth 3y ago
  > 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization Interesting, I tried a few windows that I don't normally "zoom" and you are right. I suppose prior to this I only ever attempted to perform this action on browser/document/messaging/media windows that are able to be fully maximized. > there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. > you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window Agreed, I found it handy the first time I discovered I could move a floating window over a maximized window in Windows, but I've also noticed that I let my windows become a lot more disorganized when I'm using Windows. I'm not saying they're related, it may be that I just don't have enough Windows experience, but I do find that I end up keeping my workspace a bit tidier on macOS or a tiling WM.
  - philsnow 3y ago
    > I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. I use Reduce Motion too, but even then there's an animation (it's a cross-fade instead of a wipe) with the same duration and annoyance, although it is less visually distracting and doesn't try to reinforce the worse-than-useless-to-me spatial ordering. I have to wonder if there's some deep wizardry possible, some hacky function you can call hidden way deep inside Dock.app or Mission Control.app, that will do the workspace switching without any animation.
    - pxc 3y ago
      > I have to wonder if there's some deep wizardry possible, some hacky function you can call hidden way deep inside Dock.app or Mission Control.app, that will do the workspace switching without any animation. There's a plist file with animation speeds in it somewhere, and you can reduce the duration of the animations to something extremely low, which is what people with preferences like ours often used to do. But some time in the last few major releases of macOS, Apple locked that away behind SIP. So to take advantage of it you have to disable some security features (not sure if you have to leave SIP off— you do for some changes but not others), and this may not be possible on a work machine.
      - philsnow 3y ago
        > [disabling SIP, even temporarily,] may not be possible on a work machine I wouldn't do it on a personal machine either (not that you're advocating that). Yeah, the "full" installation of yabai [0] requires partially disabling SIP permanently, the reasoning for which is laid out very well in [1]. It seems like the "wizardry" I was hoping for would amount to circumventing some basic security design of post-SIP MacOS, so would either be an exploit or else equivalent to turning off the parts of SIP mentioned in [0]. [0] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/wiki/Disabling-System-Integrity-Protection https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/wiki/Disabling-System-I... [1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/issues/798#issuecomment-767084471 https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/issues/798#issuecomment...
em-bee 3y ago
I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows that's not the problem (for me at least). i have both workspaces and multiple maximized windows on some of those workspaces. each workspace is dedicated to a task. all windows related to that task, maximized or not, are together on one workspace. pushing maximized windows to their own workspace breaks that. gnome currently behaves as expected, on macos i work around by resizing the window to fill size without using the maximize function. if each fullscreen window had their own space the number of work spaces would double, and they would not be in the order that i want them.
- asoneth 3y ago
  That makes sense to me. If you have a specific use for each workspace then I see how reordering them willy-nilly would be problematic and break muscle memory. I have a multi-monitor setup and I often find myself using particular monitors for particular applications. I would be annoyed if the operating system decided to start reorganizing them.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    absolutely. i configured a fixed number of workspaces too, because the dynamic one were more work to set up each time. but either way, everytime the monitor arrangement changes, windows jump around to different workspaces, or all workspaces get merged into one. it drives me nuts! and it's not just muscle memory. it takes longer when you have twice as many workspaces in a row. if they would arrange in columns, say workspaces are arranged horizontally, but fullscreen windows are stacked vertically on top or below the workspace they were created from, i could work with that. just not the way macos is doing it, adding them to the end of the horizontal workspace list.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      everytime the monitor arrangement changes, windows jump around to different workspaces i just noticed that when i disconnect an external monitor, then a seemingly random number of windows that were not on the external monitor, moved to the active workspace. why, gnome, why?!!!
michaelmrose 3y ago
When workspaces are finite and defined one can simply bind hotkeys to switch to a particular workspace and tend to put the same things in the same workspace. EG your main browser window is in workspace 9 full screen on your monitor and you can switch to it immediately with super+9 Switching between windows in a unknown workspace arrangement is more effort because you are triggering an action, possibly by taking your hands off the keyboard, grabbing your mouse, moving it somewhere, clicking on something, hunting for the desired item, selecting it. This seems trivial but you are performing the same actually constantly.
devnullbrain 3y ago
Swapping between workspaces on Windows is: - very slow (even with animations turned off - very buggy. Windows resize and move themselves.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  Bonus points for not being able to move a window from screen 1 on workspace 1 to screen 2 on workspace 2 without first moving to the other screen and same workspace or vice-versa.

pxc 3y ago

> you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". No, no you won't. Because 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization. It means something like 'make this window as big as the current contents it has open for viewing in each dimension, unless that's too big (and then just maximize it in that direction)'. Additionally it's just window resizing, not a window state. Which means that when you move the window again, it stays huge— so part of it must be offscreen— instead of snapping back to a reasonable unmaximized size. > So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. I'm not GP, but - there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces - you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window It adds unnecessary delays and distractions any time you want to use a different application on that screen, and it doesn't let you multitask on that screen.

asoneth 3y ago
> 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization Interesting, I tried a few windows that I don't normally "zoom" and you are right. I suppose prior to this I only ever attempted to perform this action on browser/document/messaging/media windows that are able to be fully maximized. > there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. > you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window Agreed, I found it handy the first time I discovered I could move a floating window over a maximized window in Windows, but I've also noticed that I let my windows become a lot more disorganized when I'm using Windows. I'm not saying they're related, it may be that I just don't have enough Windows experience, but I do find that I end up keeping my workspace a bit tidier on macOS or a tiling WM.
- philsnow 3y ago
  > I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. I use Reduce Motion too, but even then there's an animation (it's a cross-fade instead of a wipe) with the same duration and annoyance, although it is less visually distracting and doesn't try to reinforce the worse-than-useless-to-me spatial ordering. I have to wonder if there's some deep wizardry possible, some hacky function you can call hidden way deep inside Dock.app or Mission Control.app, that will do the workspace switching without any animation.
  - pxc 3y ago
    > I have to wonder if there's some deep wizardry possible, some hacky function you can call hidden way deep inside Dock.app or Mission Control.app, that will do the workspace switching without any animation. There's a plist file with animation speeds in it somewhere, and you can reduce the duration of the animations to something extremely low, which is what people with preferences like ours often used to do. But some time in the last few major releases of macOS, Apple locked that away behind SIP. So to take advantage of it you have to disable some security features (not sure if you have to leave SIP off— you do for some changes but not others), and this may not be possible on a work machine.
    - philsnow 3y ago
      > [disabling SIP, even temporarily,] may not be possible on a work machine I wouldn't do it on a personal machine either (not that you're advocating that). Yeah, the "full" installation of yabai [0] requires partially disabling SIP permanently, the reasoning for which is laid out very well in [1]. It seems like the "wizardry" I was hoping for would amount to circumventing some basic security design of post-SIP MacOS, so would either be an exploit or else equivalent to turning off the parts of SIP mentioned in [0]. [0] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/wiki/Disabling-System-Integrity-Protection https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/wiki/Disabling-System-I... [1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/issues/798#issuecomment-767084471 https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai/issues/798#issuecomment...

em-bee 3y ago

I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows that's not the problem (for me at least). i have both workspaces and multiple maximized windows on some of those workspaces. each workspace is dedicated to a task. all windows related to that task, maximized or not, are together on one workspace. pushing maximized windows to their own workspace breaks that. gnome currently behaves as expected, on macos i work around by resizing the window to fill size without using the maximize function. if each fullscreen window had their own space the number of work spaces would double, and they would not be in the order that i want them.

asoneth 3y ago
That makes sense to me. If you have a specific use for each workspace then I see how reordering them willy-nilly would be problematic and break muscle memory. I have a multi-monitor setup and I often find myself using particular monitors for particular applications. I would be annoyed if the operating system decided to start reorganizing them.
- em-bee 3y ago
  absolutely. i configured a fixed number of workspaces too, because the dynamic one were more work to set up each time. but either way, everytime the monitor arrangement changes, windows jump around to different workspaces, or all workspaces get merged into one. it drives me nuts! and it's not just muscle memory. it takes longer when you have twice as many workspaces in a row. if they would arrange in columns, say workspaces are arranged horizontally, but fullscreen windows are stacked vertically on top or below the workspace they were created from, i could work with that. just not the way macos is doing it, adding them to the end of the horizontal workspace list.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    everytime the monitor arrangement changes, windows jump around to different workspaces i just noticed that when i disconnect an external monitor, then a seemingly random number of windows that were not on the external monitor, moved to the active workspace. why, gnome, why?!!!

michaelmrose 3y ago

When workspaces are finite and defined one can simply bind hotkeys to switch to a particular workspace and tend to put the same things in the same workspace. EG your main browser window is in workspace 9 full screen on your monitor and you can switch to it immediately with super+9 Switching between windows in a unknown workspace arrangement is more effort because you are triggering an action, possibly by taking your hands off the keyboard, grabbing your mouse, moving it somewhere, clicking on something, hunting for the desired item, selecting it. This seems trivial but you are performing the same actually constantly.

devnullbrain 3y ago

Swapping between workspaces on Windows is: - very slow (even with animations turned off - very buggy. Windows resize and move themselves.

vladvasiliu 3y ago
Bonus points for not being able to move a window from screen 1 on workspace 1 to screen 2 on workspace 2 without first moving to the other screen and same workspace or vice-versa.