3 ms·

> is the problem that the slaves don't fight back? no, the problem is, as Baldwin said, that it's a very bad novel. And he was black, if you weren't aware. Yo

> is the problem that the slaves don't fight back? no, the problem is, as Baldwin said, that it's a very bad novel. And he was black, if you weren't aware. You're completely wrong about what serious writers (like Baldwin) want: it isn't to "grab their readers by the throat and drag them to the conclusion." That's what a pamphlet or editorial does. If you can state it in one sentence, you don't need a whole novel.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
The medium of a novel is different than the medium of a pamphlet or editorial. It will impact different people in different ways.
TheCoelacanth 3y ago
Ah, yes, why did no one ever think to just say the sentence "slavery is wrong"? That would have convinced tons of people.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  There's a difference between being effective and being *good". Screeds can be effective, but that doesn't make them literature.
coldtea 3y ago
>If you can state it in one sentence, you don't need a whole novel. Anybody can write it in one sentence, and it would have little to no weight, except to those already convinced for the cause. It's the taking the audiences to the point ("by the throat") that the novel can do best - and which Stowe's did. Baldwin's critique is presented as a literally one, but he actually disagrees with the politics of the book, which is something different. It's this that drives his dismissal, as opposed to the effectiveness of the book as a novel (to which making a point is not incompatible, as if literature is above it. Some of the best novels still attempt to make a very specific point). The "uncle Tom"-ing "pamphlet" story probably made more headway for the cause than many violent protests did.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  I assume by "literally" you mean "literary" ? Anyway, novels are not "effective." A pamphlet is effective. Propaganda is effective. Editorials are effective.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >I assume by "literally" you mean "literary"? Yes, I do. Thanks! >Anyway, novels are not "effective." A pamphlet is effective. Propaganda is effective. Editorials are effective. That's not a set in stone aesthetic rule, just the preference of some writers, from whom art has be "untainted" by any desire to be didactic or influencial. Other artists explicitly set out to make politically and socially effective art, and struggled with the potency and effectiveness of their output. Some examples, out of the top of my head, Swift, Shaw, Steinbeck, Sinclair, London, Brecht, C.S Lewis, Orwell, and so on. Some of those were of course, more and others less blatant about it.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      I guess it comes down to whether you can appreciate it without being a partisan of the political point. The Grapes of Wrath obviously had a political motivation, but one can be indifferent about that and still see it as art. Henry Fonda could find depth in the character enough to motivate him. Same with Swift. Same with Lewis. Brecht, not so much. And Uncle Tom's Cabin has virtually no appeal anymore.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        >And Uncle Tom's Cabin has virtually no appeal anymore. It might have no appeal for the trend following people in the current US climate (for political reasons), but it remains a popular book around the globe. You can find it on most bookstores in this (much remote) place just fine. And in amazon.com it's in the top 200 of the African-American literature category by sales.
        3y ago

s1artibartfast 3y ago

The medium of a novel is different than the medium of a pamphlet or editorial. It will impact different people in different ways.

TheCoelacanth 3y ago

Ah, yes, why did no one ever think to just say the sentence "slavery is wrong"? That would have convinced tons of people.

AlbertCory 3y ago
There's a difference between being effective and being *good". Screeds can be effective, but that doesn't make them literature.

coldtea 3y ago

>If you can state it in one sentence, you don't need a whole novel. Anybody can write it in one sentence, and it would have little to no weight, except to those already convinced for the cause. It's the taking the audiences to the point ("by the throat") that the novel can do best - and which Stowe's did. Baldwin's critique is presented as a literally one, but he actually disagrees with the politics of the book, which is something different. It's this that drives his dismissal, as opposed to the effectiveness of the book as a novel (to which making a point is not incompatible, as if literature is above it. Some of the best novels still attempt to make a very specific point). The "uncle Tom"-ing "pamphlet" story probably made more headway for the cause than many violent protests did.

AlbertCory 3y ago
I assume by "literally" you mean "literary" ? Anyway, novels are not "effective." A pamphlet is effective. Propaganda is effective. Editorials are effective.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >I assume by "literally" you mean "literary"? Yes, I do. Thanks! >Anyway, novels are not "effective." A pamphlet is effective. Propaganda is effective. Editorials are effective. That's not a set in stone aesthetic rule, just the preference of some writers, from whom art has be "untainted" by any desire to be didactic or influencial. Other artists explicitly set out to make politically and socially effective art, and struggled with the potency and effectiveness of their output. Some examples, out of the top of my head, Swift, Shaw, Steinbeck, Sinclair, London, Brecht, C.S Lewis, Orwell, and so on. Some of those were of course, more and others less blatant about it.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    I guess it comes down to whether you can appreciate it without being a partisan of the political point. The Grapes of Wrath obviously had a political motivation, but one can be indifferent about that and still see it as art. Henry Fonda could find depth in the character enough to motivate him. Same with Swift. Same with Lewis. Brecht, not so much. And Uncle Tom's Cabin has virtually no appeal anymore.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >And Uncle Tom's Cabin has virtually no appeal anymore. It might have no appeal for the trend following people in the current US climate (for political reasons), but it remains a popular book around the globe. You can find it on most bookstores in this (much remote) place just fine. And in amazon.com it's in the top 200 of the African-American literature category by sales.
      - 3y ago