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In theory, maybe possible. But honest-to-god critical thinking/sincere question: given that multiple countries have had satellites, deep space observation metho

In theory, maybe possible. But honest-to-god critical thinking/sincere question: given that multiple countries have had satellites, deep space observation methods, giant telescopes etc how is that alien ingress have never been noticed? Aliens couldn't have known that US/UK were the preferred destinations - countries with large surface areas like Australia, Russia, Brazil and India don't report such activities in general. Why is that UFOs are coming up as pop culture topic just now in last few decades - and no concerted & corroborative evidence exists from medieval or prehistoric times (apart from some cave paintings where imaginations have been at play of superior beings). Human race always had a creative tone to recording our history - we borrow philosophy, allude to existence of supernatural, and of God almighty. When it is about non-planetary life, definitive evidence _must_ exist all over the planet that we were visited - not just one country. Or am I being too cynical?

coding123 3y ago
The human ability to deny to others and oneself is stronger than we think. There's a vast set of people that saw them in Phoenix, astronauts, there's evidence in many places that we tend to ignore. I've met Travis Walton. He is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. We're just not listening (some people are but most are not capable of hearing it).
- srvmshr 3y ago
  I understand. But out of curiosity: why is there no material evidence across the different civilizations. Surely all of humanity couldn't be duping themselves and only US is speaking up in 21st century. I am _not_ a non-believer. It is just the lack of scientific historicity and diversity of evidence that bothers me. I cannot reconcile that mountain of contradiction with the current testimony. It is one Congressional account of definitive existence, versus the absence of conclusive proof or material evidence anywhere else.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    > public narrative of accounts from pre-modern times There are. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over... Now, none of them are as clear and objective as "A being that was obvious not human spoke to me and told me about themselves. They are ..." - but that doesn't mean we don't have a ton of incidents reported over the centuries.
    - srvmshr 3y ago
      The celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg & Basel have been time & again discussed to be purported works of fiction. (This is also from a recent cursory literature review on the topic in JSTOR). Summarily, many supernatural themed events were written by fantasy writers of those age to peddle to crowds outside their region. Those people have died, and the enigma forgotten - but these writings have found their way as proto-evidence of unusual activity from medieval times & now being used to support arguments.
themagician 3y ago
The DoD loves the myths. It's not about the existent of extraterrestrials. It's about a government so powerful that they would be able to cover it up and keep it secret. A government that can hide the existence of extraterrestrials, that can fake a moon landing, that can demolish skyscrapers in the middle of a city, is a powerful government and one that needs trillions of dollars a year. The amorphous "they" wants you to believe. Worth noting that Russia does actually have similar myths, likely for the same reasons.
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  I just wrapped up Skunkworks and put the book down pretty impressed at what the DoD and Lockheed were able to keep secret. The author described Skunkworks' mission "again and again" as creating aircraft that were technologically unbelievable to America's enemies, so they would have no means to even reckon with a defense. The USSR spent hundreds of billions of rubles on an impenetrable anti-air defense network, Lockheed built a plane that could fly right through it and drop a bomb through a Kremlin chimney, and everyone kept it a secret for years. The author also repeatedly alluded to projects from throughout his career that remained classified at the time, one of these was the F-22. My takeaway there is more that it's believable pilots have sighted unidentifiable aircraft exhibiting technologically implausible behavior because those craft are classified projects, rather than because they're extraterrestrial craft, but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps. The stealth modified helicopters used in the Bin Laden raid come to mind, and really, those are pretty boring as far as "top secret technology" goes, and were apparently in pretty regular use already.
  - gfodor 3y ago
    Everything you wrote was addressed in the hearing today. There are many, many incidents and we would not be flying these things in training areas that jeopardize flight safety of our own pilots, for one.
  - srvmshr 3y ago
    > but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps. Rare triple negation. Also, I couldn't follow the last bit. Were you saying that basically what we imply as dazzling mind boggling technology is a top secret projects waiting to be unveiled / discovered?
BobbyJo 3y ago
> how is that alien ingress have never been noticed? The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other. Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects. The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs. > Why is that UFOs are coming up as pop culture topic just now in last few decade UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist. I haven't provided references here in the interest of my time, but all of what I stated here is readily verifiable with a few internet searches. All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence. The issue today is provenance. With claims so large, even HD video of an object and creatures in real time wouldn't be enough. The only thing that would convince people is the word of the US (or some other major country) government itself providing evidence, which it has done in small doses, and is the only reason this hearing is happening.
- Eji1700 3y ago
  > The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other. And as we know they're the only countries with radar and observation abilities. > Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects. > The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs. This is nothing new. There's plenty of "stuff" that can get tagged as a UAP/UFO/Whatever. None of it has turned out to be aliens. > UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist. We've also got reports of dragons, krakens, bigfoot, the lochness, ghosts, psychic powers, and magic. Hell there's a couple of rather popular books talking about all sorts of phenomena like talking burning bushes, parting the sea, and walking on water. > All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence. No, it just isn't. HARD EVIDENCE does not exist. Even a mild dive into the claims shows how absurd all of these are, and often very real explanations are given, verified, and ignored by the community that wants to believe. It's got all the rigor of pizzagate and is in fact less likely to be possible.

coding123 3y ago

The human ability to deny to others and oneself is stronger than we think. There's a vast set of people that saw them in Phoenix, astronauts, there's evidence in many places that we tend to ignore. I've met Travis Walton. He is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. We're just not listening (some people are but most are not capable of hearing it).

srvmshr 3y ago
I understand. But out of curiosity: why is there no material evidence across the different civilizations. Surely all of humanity couldn't be duping themselves and only US is speaking up in 21st century. I am _not_ a non-believer. It is just the lack of scientific historicity and diversity of evidence that bothers me. I cannot reconcile that mountain of contradiction with the current testimony. It is one Congressional account of definitive existence, versus the absence of conclusive proof or material evidence anywhere else.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  > public narrative of accounts from pre-modern times There are. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over... Now, none of them are as clear and objective as "A being that was obvious not human spoke to me and told me about themselves. They are ..." - but that doesn't mean we don't have a ton of incidents reported over the centuries.
  - srvmshr 3y ago
    The celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg & Basel have been time & again discussed to be purported works of fiction. (This is also from a recent cursory literature review on the topic in JSTOR). Summarily, many supernatural themed events were written by fantasy writers of those age to peddle to crowds outside their region. Those people have died, and the enigma forgotten - but these writings have found their way as proto-evidence of unusual activity from medieval times & now being used to support arguments.

themagician 3y ago

The DoD loves the myths. It's not about the existent of extraterrestrials. It's about a government so powerful that they would be able to cover it up and keep it secret. A government that can hide the existence of extraterrestrials, that can fake a moon landing, that can demolish skyscrapers in the middle of a city, is a powerful government and one that needs trillions of dollars a year. The amorphous "they" wants you to believe. Worth noting that Russia does actually have similar myths, likely for the same reasons.

mustacheemperor 3y ago
I just wrapped up Skunkworks and put the book down pretty impressed at what the DoD and Lockheed were able to keep secret. The author described Skunkworks' mission "again and again" as creating aircraft that were technologically unbelievable to America's enemies, so they would have no means to even reckon with a defense. The USSR spent hundreds of billions of rubles on an impenetrable anti-air defense network, Lockheed built a plane that could fly right through it and drop a bomb through a Kremlin chimney, and everyone kept it a secret for years. The author also repeatedly alluded to projects from throughout his career that remained classified at the time, one of these was the F-22. My takeaway there is more that it's believable pilots have sighted unidentifiable aircraft exhibiting technologically implausible behavior because those craft are classified projects, rather than because they're extraterrestrial craft, but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps. The stealth modified helicopters used in the Bin Laden raid come to mind, and really, those are pretty boring as far as "top secret technology" goes, and were apparently in pretty regular use already.
- gfodor 3y ago
  Everything you wrote was addressed in the hearing today. There are many, many incidents and we would not be flying these things in training areas that jeopardize flight safety of our own pilots, for one.
- srvmshr 3y ago
  > but I don't think it's so plainly unbelievable that the government can't keep secret projects under wraps. Rare triple negation. Also, I couldn't follow the last bit. Were you saying that basically what we imply as dazzling mind boggling technology is a top secret projects waiting to be unveiled / discovered?

BobbyJo 3y ago

> how is that alien ingress have never been noticed? The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other. Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects. The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs. > Why is that UFOs are coming up as pop culture topic just now in last few decade UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist. I haven't provided references here in the interest of my time, but all of what I stated here is readily verifiable with a few internet searches. All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence. The issue today is provenance. With claims so large, even HD video of an object and creatures in real time wouldn't be enough. The only thing that would convince people is the word of the US (or some other major country) government itself providing evidence, which it has done in small doses, and is the only reason this hearing is happening.

Eji1700 3y ago
> The US and the USSR had to collaborate on filtering out UAPs from radar early warning systems so we didn't nuke each other. And as we know they're the only countries with radar and observation abilities. > Two of the people testifying in front of Congress are ex military pilots noting that they saw, and logged on radar, objects. > The third has stated specifically that we do have satellite data and imagery displaying UAPs. This is nothing new. There's plenty of "stuff" that can get tagged as a UAP/UFO/Whatever. None of it has turned out to be aliens. > UFO reports from the middle ages exist, both in paintings and in writings. Ship captains have reports in their logs from the 16 and 1700s. Reports from within the U.S. in the 1800s exist. We've also got reports of dragons, krakens, bigfoot, the lochness, ghosts, psychic powers, and magic. Hell there's a couple of rather popular books talking about all sorts of phenomena like talking burning bushes, parting the sea, and walking on water. > All arguments of the form "where is the evidence" are moot at this point, as there is a mountain of evidence. No, it just isn't. HARD EVIDENCE does not exist. Even a mild dive into the claims shows how absurd all of these are, and often very real explanations are given, verified, and ignored by the community that wants to believe. It's got all the rigor of pizzagate and is in fact less likely to be possible.