5 ms·

What does “complexity” even mean here? Is modern music any less complex than “I Want to Hold Your Hand”?

intalentive 3y ago
There are different ways to measure complexity: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.00674/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.0067... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4281146/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4281146/ Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles, who used more chords (and more chord progressions) than are used today. Music today is highly repetitive. Timbre is also less complex thanks in part to the use of virtual instruments and sample packs. Synthesized sounds and samples are intrinsically less complex than sounds recorded in a room. Any two hits of, say, a hi-hat will yield different waveforms and our brains pick up on these micro variations.
- TremendousJudge 3y ago
  I notice that the authors of that paper are two physicists and a data scientist. I wonder if they even consulted a musicologist or a composer with a background in research before publishing this paper. What would you think about a paper on programming that featured no computer scientists?
  - MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
    [dead]
- whycome 3y ago
  We're running out of chords. They've all been mined. We can't make new ones.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  > Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles, who used more chords (and more chord progressions) than are used today. Music today is highly repetitive. The Beatles used three chord progressions for everything with very little variation. Modern music has far more variety.
- yunwal 3y ago
  > Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles The most popular genre in America (the world?) isn’t sung and doesn’t focus on tone, so this is hardly surprising. I bet if you measured rhythmic complexity or lyrical complexity it’d show the opposite.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  > Timbre is also less complex thanks in part to the use of virtual instruments and sample packs. Synthesized sounds and samples are intrinsically less complex than sounds recorded in a room. Any two hits of, say, a hi-hat will yield different waveforms and our brains pick up on these micro variations. You should see how much time EDM producers spend tweaking the waveforms of individual percussion hits. The idea that timbre in modern music is _less_ complex than in the past is just mind boggling to me, given the level of control that people have in sculpting waveforms and samples. There are entire EDM tracks that are basically just atonal explorations of timbre.
  - cmgbhm 3y ago
    I think it goes both ways. Some do spend insane amounts of time on individual hits or compositing sounds to various functional points. You can also get the same thing looped 4x that has no variation. Hard to fault either side. Musicians have to get work out rapidly and then occasionally something gets legs.
MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
[dead]
agumonkey 3y ago
Vocal harmonies for one
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

There are different ways to measure complexity: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.00674/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.0067... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4281146/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4281146/ Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles, who used more chords (and more chord progressions) than are used today. Music today is highly repetitive. Timbre is also less complex thanks in part to the use of virtual instruments and sample packs. Synthesized sounds and samples are intrinsically less complex than sounds recorded in a room. Any two hits of, say, a hi-hat will yield different waveforms and our brains pick up on these micro variations.

TremendousJudge 3y ago
I notice that the authors of that paper are two physicists and a data scientist. I wonder if they even consulted a musicologist or a composer with a background in research before publishing this paper. What would you think about a paper on programming that featured no computer scientists?
- MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
  [dead]
whycome 3y ago
We're running out of chords. They've all been mined. We can't make new ones.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
> Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles, who used more chords (and more chord progressions) than are used today. Music today is highly repetitive. The Beatles used three chord progressions for everything with very little variation. Modern music has far more variety.
yunwal 3y ago
> Modern music is less harmonically complex than even early Beatles The most popular genre in America (the world?) isn’t sung and doesn’t focus on tone, so this is hardly surprising. I bet if you measured rhythmic complexity or lyrical complexity it’d show the opposite.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
> Timbre is also less complex thanks in part to the use of virtual instruments and sample packs. Synthesized sounds and samples are intrinsically less complex than sounds recorded in a room. Any two hits of, say, a hi-hat will yield different waveforms and our brains pick up on these micro variations. You should see how much time EDM producers spend tweaking the waveforms of individual percussion hits. The idea that timbre in modern music is _less_ complex than in the past is just mind boggling to me, given the level of control that people have in sculpting waveforms and samples. There are entire EDM tracks that are basically just atonal explorations of timbre.
- cmgbhm 3y ago
  I think it goes both ways. Some do spend insane amounts of time on individual hits or compositing sounds to various functional points. You can also get the same thing looped 4x that has no variation. Hard to fault either side. Musicians have to get work out rapidly and then occasionally something gets legs.

MrDrMcCoy 3y ago

[dead]

agumonkey 3y ago

Vocal harmonies for one

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]