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Interesting. Funny how wrong the Community Note was. Obviously vaccine × virus aren't an xor. Many people have already had the virus by the time they were for

by tomp 3y ago

Interesting. Funny how wrong the Community Note was. Obviously vaccine × virus aren't an xor. Many people have already had the virus by the time they were forced to take the vaccine. For those people the myocarditis risk was a strict net negative.

legulere 3y ago
Who was forced to get vaccinated in which country?
- pcdoodle 3y ago
  People who wanted to keep their job, friends and family. It's disgusting.
  - gadders 3y ago
    Or people who wanted to travel.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    By that metric, most of the people I know are being forced to wipe their asses and wash their hands as well. Where will the tyranny stop!?
  - zzzeek 3y ago
    I'm forced to wear pants in public at all times. If I showed up to Thanksgiving with no pants, they'd ask me to leave and id never get invited again. Tyranny ! Everyone should be free to endanger everyone around them with a deadly crippling virus at all times.
    - gadders 3y ago
      The vaccine didn't stop transmission though so being vaccinated made no difference as to whether you were "endangering people" (you weren't, mostly) with a "deadly" (not unless morbidly obese or with other serious health issues) "crippling" (still unconfirmed) virus.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > ...being vaccinated made no difference as to whether you were "endangering people" Those parroting this point forget to mention that hospitals across the country were collapsing because of COVID-19 patient admissions.
        gadders 3y ago
        But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people. How does hospitals collapsing change that?
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people You are now suggesting that vaccines did not prevent severe illness, which is not true.
        gadders 3y ago
        But that doesn't change whether you are endangering people by infecting them.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here. Vaccinations were a matter of public health. Vaccines did not prevent infections, but they prevented severe illness. The healthcare system was collapsing under the pressure from hundreds of thousands of patients suffering from severe illness. This would put any other people seeking for care at risk, since they could not get it. Since vaccinations would prevent severe illness, that would alleviate the pressure on the system, thus making care available to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it. It's not that hard to understand.
        3y ago
- 2devnull 3y ago
  I was. I’m American.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    Could you share more than four words about it?
- metiscus 3y ago
  Define forced. Federal employees and federal contractors were required to be vaccinated or lose their jobs and this was also repeated in several US states. Military members were also forced to vaccinate or face other than honorable discharge or NJP at a minimum. Yes, nobody came with a gun and "forced" them to take it, but significant economic coercision meets my definition of force.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    > ... significant economic coercision meets my definition of force Military members are vaccinated against a myriad of illnesses right after joining. They are also required to follow a bunch of rules, some of which severely restrict the practice of their first amendment rights. They weren't "forced", as much as they have to agree with the DoD rules to work for them.
    - stickyricky 3y ago
      We should at least acknowledge the "trolley" problem here. You have two bad choices: join the marines or live in poverty. The US has a "volunteer" force but "volunteer" is a stretched euphemism in my mind. There aren't many people with options "volunteering" for the marines. Obligatory "I'm pro vaccine".
      - mywittyname 3y ago
        Marines are the most prestigious branch of the military, by a huge margin. Plenty of people willingly join the Marines, specifically because they know they get to spend the rest of their life saying they're a Marine and with that comes (near universal) respect. The fact that the military lifts people out of poverty is a great thing. It's a damned hard life being in the military, especially if you make a career out of it. But four years of service with a decent shot at an education and solid employment when you get out is a fair trade.
        stickyricky 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- VancouverMan 3y ago
  It was pretty common across Canada. The federally-imposed policy affected many people, given how it involved the transportation sector, in addition to federal government staff: "Prime Minister announces mandatory vaccination for the federal workforce and federally regulated transportation sectors" (October 6, 2021) https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-minister-announces-mandatory-vaccination-federal-workforce-and https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-... The largest cities forced their staff, too. Here are the announcements for Toronto and Vancouver, for example: "City of Toronto announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination for its employees" (August 19, 2021) https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-announces-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-for-its-employees/ https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-announces-mandat... "City announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination policy" (October 18, 2021) https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-announces-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-policy.aspx https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-announces-mandatory-... Those are just a few examples that had a pretty widespread impact.
javagram 3y ago
On the other hand, Musk’s tweet was about whether myocarditis risk was “common” which it isn’t even for previously infected individuals who receives the vaccine whether it was voluntary or “forced”. Moreover previously infected individuals did receive additional future immunity and protection against severe disease and death from vaccine shots so receiving the shot was not “strictly a net negative” regardless.
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by tomp 3y ago

legulere 3y ago

Who was forced to get vaccinated in which country?

pcdoodle 3y ago
People who wanted to keep their job, friends and family. It's disgusting.
- gadders 3y ago
  Or people who wanted to travel.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  By that metric, most of the people I know are being forced to wipe their asses and wash their hands as well. Where will the tyranny stop!?
- zzzeek 3y ago
  I'm forced to wear pants in public at all times. If I showed up to Thanksgiving with no pants, they'd ask me to leave and id never get invited again. Tyranny ! Everyone should be free to endanger everyone around them with a deadly crippling virus at all times.
  - gadders 3y ago
    The vaccine didn't stop transmission though so being vaccinated made no difference as to whether you were "endangering people" (you weren't, mostly) with a "deadly" (not unless morbidly obese or with other serious health issues) "crippling" (still unconfirmed) virus.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      > ...being vaccinated made no difference as to whether you were "endangering people" Those parroting this point forget to mention that hospitals across the country were collapsing because of COVID-19 patient admissions.
      - gadders 3y ago
        But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people. How does hospitals collapsing change that?
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people You are now suggesting that vaccines did not prevent severe illness, which is not true.
        gadders 3y ago
        But that doesn't change whether you are endangering people by infecting them.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here. Vaccinations were a matter of public health. Vaccines did not prevent infections, but they prevented severe illness. The healthcare system was collapsing under the pressure from hundreds of thousands of patients suffering from severe illness. This would put any other people seeking for care at risk, since they could not get it. Since vaccinations would prevent severe illness, that would alleviate the pressure on the system, thus making care available to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it. It's not that hard to understand.
        3y ago
2devnull 3y ago
I was. I’m American.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  Could you share more than four words about it?
metiscus 3y ago
Define forced. Federal employees and federal contractors were required to be vaccinated or lose their jobs and this was also repeated in several US states. Military members were also forced to vaccinate or face other than honorable discharge or NJP at a minimum. Yes, nobody came with a gun and "forced" them to take it, but significant economic coercision meets my definition of force.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  > ... significant economic coercision meets my definition of force Military members are vaccinated against a myriad of illnesses right after joining. They are also required to follow a bunch of rules, some of which severely restrict the practice of their first amendment rights. They weren't "forced", as much as they have to agree with the DoD rules to work for them.
  - stickyricky 3y ago
    We should at least acknowledge the "trolley" problem here. You have two bad choices: join the marines or live in poverty. The US has a "volunteer" force but "volunteer" is a stretched euphemism in my mind. There aren't many people with options "volunteering" for the marines. Obligatory "I'm pro vaccine".
    - mywittyname 3y ago
      Marines are the most prestigious branch of the military, by a huge margin. Plenty of people willingly join the Marines, specifically because they know they get to spend the rest of their life saying they're a Marine and with that comes (near universal) respect. The fact that the military lifts people out of poverty is a great thing. It's a damned hard life being in the military, especially if you make a career out of it. But four years of service with a decent shot at an education and solid employment when you get out is a fair trade.
      - stickyricky 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
VancouverMan 3y ago
It was pretty common across Canada. The federally-imposed policy affected many people, given how it involved the transportation sector, in addition to federal government staff: "Prime Minister announces mandatory vaccination for the federal workforce and federally regulated transportation sectors" (October 6, 2021) https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-minister-announces-mandatory-vaccination-federal-workforce-and https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-... The largest cities forced their staff, too. Here are the announcements for Toronto and Vancouver, for example: "City of Toronto announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination for its employees" (August 19, 2021) https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-announces-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-for-its-employees/ https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-announces-mandat... "City announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination policy" (October 18, 2021) https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-announces-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-policy.aspx https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-announces-mandatory-... Those are just a few examples that had a pretty widespread impact.

javagram 3y ago

On the other hand, Musk’s tweet was about whether myocarditis risk was “common” which it isn’t even for previously infected individuals who receives the vaccine whether it was voluntary or “forced”. Moreover previously infected individuals did receive additional future immunity and protection against severe disease and death from vaccine shots so receiving the shot was not “strictly a net negative” regardless.

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