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This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have ann

by Daril 3y ago

This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example, when watching a video on Youtube). Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project ... it is another sign. My recipe: AdGuard Home, Brave browser (phone, tablet, desktop), Bromite (phone), Firefox (desktop) + uBlock origin plugin ... and FreeTube on desktop. Just using Brave on the phone is enough to kill all ads and trackers. In the open source community, there will always be someone smarter than they think who will find a way around their gates... Few days ago Kevin Mitnick passed away, sadly, but there will be always another Kevin Mitnick ... Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later.

andsoitis 3y ago
> They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net > they are losing the control on Android What do you mean by this and what does Android have to do with trying to hold on to the net?
- gkbrk 3y ago
  A huge number of people only use the internet with their phones, and Google is doing their best to tie the entire system to Google services and the Chrome browser.
  - Daril 3y ago
    Exactly. And why the phones are sold with preinstalled with all the Google software and services and it is difficult to remove them if not via adb cli ? If they are the best in the World as someone else has stated, the people will flock to install them on a "vanilla" phone, right ? All your SMS, contacts, emails, location positions, photos ... One time my mother was at a funeral at a cemetry, nearby is a cafè. 20 minutes later she got a notification from Google : "How was your experience at the cafè ?" What have this to do with their own products, their free tier levels, the freedom to not watch Youtube or use Gmail ?
- Daril 3y ago
  I mean, there are now many other open source projects based on Android (LineageOS and e/OS/ for example) that are free from Google. If they can't control the operating system on your phone because it's free from their services, they can't control your device, track you and send you their ads... I've been using e/OS/ for 3 years now on a phone made in Germany (Gigaset). There is always an alternative...
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    LineageOS isn’t entirely free from Google. It relies on AOSP, which is maintained by Google, and it suffers from the decisions that Google makes. For example, Google made a change in AOSP to require location services to be installed as a system package instead of a user package, something few users know how to do. The result is that users are less likely to use something privacy-protecting like Mozilla’s location services. Moreover, Google has reimplemented a lot of AOSP functionality in its Play Services and the industry now uses those Google APIs instead of the old AOSP ones, so loads of apps won’t even run on LineageOS.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    LineageOS is a great illustration of how Google is winning. Years ago I could use LineageOS or Cyanogenmod as my primary phone just fine. Now it's very hard to do that if I want to be able to use an increasing number of apps (banking comes to mind). And now I won't be able to bank with Firefox, either.
    - Daril 3y ago
      Try e/OS/ indeed ... it works for me and many others.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
surajrmal 3y ago
> Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project I work on fuchsia and can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about. Fuchsia and android are more complimentary than they are competitive. I've noticed that when there is a lack of information, people tend to invent things that fit their narrative, but that's a really dangerous habit.
- Daril 3y ago
  Taken from Wikipedia : Fuchsia is an open-source capability-based operating system developed by Google. In contrast to Google's Linux-based operating systems such as ChromeOS and Android, Fuchsia is based on a custom kernel named Zircon. It publicly debuted as a self-hosted git repository in August 2016 without any official corporate announcement. After years of development, its official product launch was on the first-generation Google Nest Hub, replacing its original Linux-based Cast OS. And from 9to5google.com Work on this Fuchsia project within Android — dubbed “device/google/fuchsia” — stalled in February 2021, with no public indication of how things were progressing. This week, all of the code for “device/google/fuchsia” was removed from Android, formally signaling the end of this particular avenue. In its place, we have a lone “TODO” message, suggesting that Google may be building up something new in its place. The developer responsible for the change primarily works on Fuchsia’s “Starnix” project. First shared in early 2021 as a proposal, Starnix is designed to make it possible for Fuchsia to “natively” run apps and libraries that were built for Linux or Android. To do this, Starnix would act to translate the low-level kernel instructions from what Linux expects to what Fuchsia’s Zircon kernel expects. So ... custom kernel and a custom OS that will support Android applications as far as I understand ...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Daril 3y ago
  Perhaps you mean Flutter ?
  - 3y ago
Dah00n 3y ago
If you are this paranoid about someone showing ads or collecting your information, maybe Brave isn't the best choice, with their history of getting caught with both hands in the cookie jar. Especially since you already use Firefox elsewhere. Mozilla also collects information btw.
- Daril 3y ago
  I have another level of blocking : AdGuard Home. I know that there is no optimal solution. I do the best I can with what I have.
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    It wasn't meant as criticism. Doing something is better than nothing. Of course the irony is that the more you do the easier it gets to fingerprint and track you with cookieless technology. I've been there and given up. The best solution in my opinion is to blend in and hide in the masses while blocking the worst offenders. I use Firefox with uBlock and DNS blocking in my firewall (OPNsense). I participated in an experiment that tried to fingerprint without cookies over time. All browsers failed but Firefox did best (for me). So that's what I use.
- everdrive 3y ago
  I almost never see meaningful detail regarding what is collected and what it’s used for. Is Google’s collection equivalent to Brave’s, or to Firefox’s? I’d be very surprised if there were not significant differences between what is collected here. Comments like this draw a false equivalence between the three.
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    That's a bit of a strawman since I don't compare the three. I only compare Firefox and Brave. Of course Google is collecting the most data out of those and the tracking is worse, especially since they have other data points to compare it with. However, according to my logic using Brave + Firefox simply must cause more data to be collected than using only one of the two, no?
xNeil 3y ago
>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chromium. Firefox runs on top of Google's money. Their lead in search does not seem to be going away anytime soon - there is a reason literally everyone on earth uses Google as a search engine. There is a reason literally everyone on earth uses YouTube to watch any video they want. There is a reason 70% of all phone users use Google's operating system. There is a reason Gmail is by far and away the clear leader in the personal email space. >They have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example when watching a video on YouTube). As they rightly can. You are under no obligation to use YouTube - and if you do use it, you must pay for it, either by watching ads, or by paying for YouTube Premium. HN can keep complaining about Google all they want, but Google is one of the few companies that has truly made the Internet the Internet. Their impact on humanity has a whole has so far most definitely been net positive, and you are under no obligation whatsoever to use their products. There is a reason they are the clear leader in the products they offer, and that is because they offer, say, a free tier (as in Gmail), or openness (as in Android).
- urda 3y ago
  "the rotten tree-trunk, until the very moment when the storm-blast breaks it in two, has all the appearance of might it ever had." - Isaac Asimov, Foundation
  - xNeil 3y ago
    While that's a very nice saying, and I appreciate you applying in this context, what you're basically saying is we can never ever assess any organization as strong whatsoever, since every organization that breaks up seems strong at some point.
    - urda 3y ago
zoomTo125 3y ago
Bromite is not maintained for a year. It is a bad idea to use it unless you're using the unofficial build.

by Daril 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

> They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net > they are losing the control on Android What do you mean by this and what does Android have to do with trying to hold on to the net?

gkbrk 3y ago
A huge number of people only use the internet with their phones, and Google is doing their best to tie the entire system to Google services and the Chrome browser.
- Daril 3y ago
  Exactly. And why the phones are sold with preinstalled with all the Google software and services and it is difficult to remove them if not via adb cli ? If they are the best in the World as someone else has stated, the people will flock to install them on a "vanilla" phone, right ? All your SMS, contacts, emails, location positions, photos ... One time my mother was at a funeral at a cemetry, nearby is a cafè. 20 minutes later she got a notification from Google : "How was your experience at the cafè ?" What have this to do with their own products, their free tier levels, the freedom to not watch Youtube or use Gmail ?
Daril 3y ago
I mean, there are now many other open source projects based on Android (LineageOS and e/OS/ for example) that are free from Google. If they can't control the operating system on your phone because it's free from their services, they can't control your device, track you and send you their ads... I've been using e/OS/ for 3 years now on a phone made in Germany (Gigaset). There is always an alternative...
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  LineageOS isn’t entirely free from Google. It relies on AOSP, which is maintained by Google, and it suffers from the decisions that Google makes. For example, Google made a change in AOSP to require location services to be installed as a system package instead of a user package, something few users know how to do. The result is that users are less likely to use something privacy-protecting like Mozilla’s location services. Moreover, Google has reimplemented a lot of AOSP functionality in its Play Services and the industry now uses those Google APIs instead of the old AOSP ones, so loads of apps won’t even run on LineageOS.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  LineageOS is a great illustration of how Google is winning. Years ago I could use LineageOS or Cyanogenmod as my primary phone just fine. Now it's very hard to do that if I want to be able to use an increasing number of apps (banking comes to mind). And now I won't be able to bank with Firefox, either.
  - Daril 3y ago
    Try e/OS/ indeed ... it works for me and many others.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

surajrmal 3y ago

> Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project I work on fuchsia and can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about. Fuchsia and android are more complimentary than they are competitive. I've noticed that when there is a lack of information, people tend to invent things that fit their narrative, but that's a really dangerous habit.

Daril 3y ago
Taken from Wikipedia : Fuchsia is an open-source capability-based operating system developed by Google. In contrast to Google's Linux-based operating systems such as ChromeOS and Android, Fuchsia is based on a custom kernel named Zircon. It publicly debuted as a self-hosted git repository in August 2016 without any official corporate announcement. After years of development, its official product launch was on the first-generation Google Nest Hub, replacing its original Linux-based Cast OS. And from 9to5google.com Work on this Fuchsia project within Android — dubbed “device/google/fuchsia” — stalled in February 2021, with no public indication of how things were progressing. This week, all of the code for “device/google/fuchsia” was removed from Android, formally signaling the end of this particular avenue. In its place, we have a lone “TODO” message, suggesting that Google may be building up something new in its place. The developer responsible for the change primarily works on Fuchsia’s “Starnix” project. First shared in early 2021 as a proposal, Starnix is designed to make it possible for Fuchsia to “natively” run apps and libraries that were built for Linux or Android. To do this, Starnix would act to translate the low-level kernel instructions from what Linux expects to what Fuchsia’s Zircon kernel expects. So ... custom kernel and a custom OS that will support Android applications as far as I understand ...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Daril 3y ago
Perhaps you mean Flutter ?
- 3y ago

Dah00n 3y ago

If you are this paranoid about someone showing ads or collecting your information, maybe Brave isn't the best choice, with their history of getting caught with both hands in the cookie jar. Especially since you already use Firefox elsewhere. Mozilla also collects information btw.

Daril 3y ago
I have another level of blocking : AdGuard Home. I know that there is no optimal solution. I do the best I can with what I have.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  It wasn't meant as criticism. Doing something is better than nothing. Of course the irony is that the more you do the easier it gets to fingerprint and track you with cookieless technology. I've been there and given up. The best solution in my opinion is to blend in and hide in the masses while blocking the worst offenders. I use Firefox with uBlock and DNS blocking in my firewall (OPNsense). I participated in an experiment that tried to fingerprint without cookies over time. All browsers failed but Firefox did best (for me). So that's what I use.
everdrive 3y ago
I almost never see meaningful detail regarding what is collected and what it’s used for. Is Google’s collection equivalent to Brave’s, or to Firefox’s? I’d be very surprised if there were not significant differences between what is collected here. Comments like this draw a false equivalence between the three.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  That's a bit of a strawman since I don't compare the three. I only compare Firefox and Brave. Of course Google is collecting the most data out of those and the tracking is worse, especially since they have other data points to compare it with. However, according to my logic using Brave + Firefox simply must cause more data to be collected than using only one of the two, no?

xNeil 3y ago

>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chromium. Firefox runs on top of Google's money. Their lead in search does not seem to be going away anytime soon - there is a reason literally everyone on earth uses Google as a search engine. There is a reason literally everyone on earth uses YouTube to watch any video they want. There is a reason 70% of all phone users use Google's operating system. There is a reason Gmail is by far and away the clear leader in the personal email space. >They have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example when watching a video on YouTube). As they rightly can. You are under no obligation to use YouTube - and if you do use it, you must pay for it, either by watching ads, or by paying for YouTube Premium. HN can keep complaining about Google all they want, but Google is one of the few companies that has truly made the Internet the Internet. Their impact on humanity has a whole has so far most definitely been net positive, and you are under no obligation whatsoever to use their products. There is a reason they are the clear leader in the products they offer, and that is because they offer, say, a free tier (as in Gmail), or openness (as in Android).

urda 3y ago
"the rotten tree-trunk, until the very moment when the storm-blast breaks it in two, has all the appearance of might it ever had." - Isaac Asimov, Foundation
- xNeil 3y ago
  While that's a very nice saying, and I appreciate you applying in this context, what you're basically saying is we can never ever assess any organization as strong whatsoever, since every organization that breaks up seems strong at some point.
  - urda 3y ago

zoomTo125 3y ago

Bromite is not maintained for a year. It is a bad idea to use it unless you're using the unofficial build.