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I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation

I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

rapsey 3y ago
FTC right now has awful leadership. They only care about blocking mergers and scoring political points.
- freeone3000 3y ago
  Isn’t blocking mergers one of the founding goals of the FTC?
  - scrum-treats 3y ago
    Protecting consumers is the goal. If that means blocking mergers to protect consumers, then so be it.
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  That is a defeatist attitude; writing to them couldn't be worth less than shouting into the abyss with our comments on Github issues and on HN, etc.
  - j45 3y ago
    One thing that I’ve heard before is if one person complains a politician knows there’s 9 more.
- maxsilver 3y ago
  It's literally the FTC's job to block most mergers (they are required by law to block bad mergers, see https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... for details) Their leadership isn't "awful", their leaders are finally doing their job, for the first time in decades.
  - rapsey 3y ago
    Blocking Meta's acquisition of that VR company was braindead. Absolutely pointless.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      So you're upset about that decision. Fair enough! I can't think of any regulatory agency that hasn't made a decision I thought was terrible at some point or another. But that doesn't mean that what they do, big picture, is pointless.
      - rapsey 3y ago
        Fact of the matter is acquisitions are a corner stone of the tech economic model. If they actually cared about consumers and competition they would go after MS for bundling Teams. Or MS for round-tripping cash with OpenAI.
  - cataphract 3y ago
    Doing their job by losing everything in court like the Activision/Microsoft case just last week? Great use of government resources.
    - Larrikin 3y ago
      I'd rather they bring cases and lose some instead of never bringing cases and letting the corporations do whatever they want with no fear of consequences.
      - xNeil 3y ago
        If they bring cases and lose them corporations will continue doing whatever they want since there will be no consequences. It's important for the FTC to know what fights are worth fighting, and they will be taken seriously.
        deleted 3y ago
- r00fus 3y ago
  FTC is actually the most active it's been in decades. Blocking mergers is one of its core functions. Not to mention the stance against NDAs, etc. Where have they been lacking?
mebassett 3y ago
If you are in the UK you can also contact the competition and markets authority. I've also created a parliament petition, which has gotten the 5 min supporters it needs before they review and publish it. I will share it on HN once its published. Edit: removed the link to the petition for now (it'll come back after its published)
exceptione 3y ago
Trying to reach official authorities is a good idea. I will quote and extend part of my call to action I did in an other thread - ban Google all together in your personal life. No chrome and no excuses. Stop the bullshit or leave this profession. Use startpage, duckduck or whatever for searching. - develop with and for firefox and friends only, introduce usability problems for chrome - employ the same tactics as google. -> Bundle firefox with the software you are distributing. -> Like google did, remove the competition altogether from the users device. -> make your npm-module or your website slower in chrome -> let your customers know that your service for non-chrome users is cheaper. Money motivates. -> show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation. Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action. -> use as many tricks as you can think of to spoil the well for google. Destroy search results, fill their storage with /dev/random, whatever your imagination leads you too. You keep telling us you are so smart. Show it. - remember, Google's capital is data. Hit that and the beast will die.
- xur17 3y ago
  > show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation. Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action. If I recall correctly, this was Google's approach with Chrome.
  - bmacho 3y ago
    So were the other items in the "employ the same tactics as google." list.
    - xur17 3y ago
      That's what I get for skimming the post, lol.
  - thejosh 3y ago
bannedbybros 3y ago
[dead]
4oo4 3y ago
My thoughts exactly. These GitHub protests, while emotionally satisfying, do not work. Google does not care and they are already drunk on monopolist power. Contact info for antitrust authorities: US: - https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation - antitrust@ftc.gov EU: - https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en - comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.eu UK: - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition-or-market-problem https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition... - general.enquiries@cma.gov.uk India: - https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ I could not find an easy contact method for filing a complaint for the CCI, but it looks like this is the process? - https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atd https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atd Canada: - https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GH%C3%89T-7TDNA5 https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-e... I'm happy to share what I've sent to the FTC if others want to use it as a template.
- lancesells 3y ago
  Please share your template.
  - 4oo4 3y ago
    I would like to bring your attention to Google’s recent proposal to add a feature to its Chrome (Chromium family) of browsers called Web Environment Integrity. This provides a mechanism to reinforce Google’s already dominant browser market position by creating a technological control that can be used to nullify a user’s choice of browser, device and operating system. This technology also has the potential for abuse by preventing users from using browser extensions that can enhance security by blocking unwanted and potentially malicious content, as well as browser extensions that help vulnerable users with enhanced accessibility needs, such as color blindness and visual impairment. Google’s dominant, near-monopoly position in the browser market already harms me as a consumer by reducing browser choices and preventing a competitive market for developing new browsers. Allowing Google to include this feature will reduce my browser choices and consolidate the browser market even further, and it is incumbent on [INSERT AUTHORITY HERE] to take action against this abusive behavior.
dottedmag 3y ago
Has anyone sent such a message to their authority? Please share, as more authorities (Norwegian anti-competition authority will surely want to hear about taht) need to be contacted with well-researched text.
scrum-treats 3y ago
> "Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?" Yes, I have. A couple times now. Google has been strongly signaling this since last year. No one wanted to believe it last year though, before the tech bubble burst. Now that people see Google isn't so awesome right now, perhaps more people will write and contact their representatives.
idreyn 3y ago
I wrote to the FTC: https://gist.github.com/idreyn/a37e4249b326243e1714b14780717067 https://gist.github.com/idreyn/a37e4249b326243e1714b14780717...
- spudlyo 3y ago
  This is excellent. Thank you.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> has anyone written to the respective competition authorities Just a reminder that several states have already filed an antitrust suit (in part) over a previous Google plan to turn the web into their own walled garden. > Project NERA was Google’s original plan to create a closed ecosystem out of the open internet. Google documents reveal that Google’s motive was to “successfully mimic a walled garden across the open web [so] we can protect our margins.” According to Google’s internal documents, the strategy would allow Google to extract even higher intermediation fees. A Google employee aptly described Google’s ambition for Project NERA to “capture the benefits of tightly ‘operating’ a property … without ‘owning’ the property and facing the challenges of building new consumer products.” Google main strategy to do this was to leverage its popular browser, Chrome, to track users, by forcing them to stay logged into the browser. Google did this by logging users into the browser when they logged into any Google property such as Gmail or YouTube, and logging them out of services when they logged out of the browser. https://mspoweruser.com/project-nera-state-attorneys-general-claim-google-is-planning-to-turn-the-internet-into-a-walled-garden/ https://mspoweruser.com/project-nera-state-attorneys-general... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903.152.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.56...
Young-Lord 3y ago
For developers, insert this JavaScript file to block all WEI-enabled browsers from accessing your website. https://github.com/Young-Lord/fight-for-the-open-web https://github.com/Young-Lord/fight-for-the-open-web

rapsey 3y ago

FTC right now has awful leadership. They only care about blocking mergers and scoring political points.

freeone3000 3y ago
Isn’t blocking mergers one of the founding goals of the FTC?
- scrum-treats 3y ago
  Protecting consumers is the goal. If that means blocking mergers to protect consumers, then so be it.
supriyo-biswas 3y ago
That is a defeatist attitude; writing to them couldn't be worth less than shouting into the abyss with our comments on Github issues and on HN, etc.
- j45 3y ago
  One thing that I’ve heard before is if one person complains a politician knows there’s 9 more.
maxsilver 3y ago
It's literally the FTC's job to block most mergers (they are required by law to block bad mergers, see https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... for details) Their leadership isn't "awful", their leaders are finally doing their job, for the first time in decades.
- rapsey 3y ago
  Blocking Meta's acquisition of that VR company was braindead. Absolutely pointless.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    So you're upset about that decision. Fair enough! I can't think of any regulatory agency that hasn't made a decision I thought was terrible at some point or another. But that doesn't mean that what they do, big picture, is pointless.
    - rapsey 3y ago
      Fact of the matter is acquisitions are a corner stone of the tech economic model. If they actually cared about consumers and competition they would go after MS for bundling Teams. Or MS for round-tripping cash with OpenAI.
- cataphract 3y ago
  Doing their job by losing everything in court like the Activision/Microsoft case just last week? Great use of government resources.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    I'd rather they bring cases and lose some instead of never bringing cases and letting the corporations do whatever they want with no fear of consequences.
    - xNeil 3y ago
      If they bring cases and lose them corporations will continue doing whatever they want since there will be no consequences. It's important for the FTC to know what fights are worth fighting, and they will be taken seriously.
      - deleted 3y ago
r00fus 3y ago
FTC is actually the most active it's been in decades. Blocking mergers is one of its core functions. Not to mention the stance against NDAs, etc. Where have they been lacking?

mebassett 3y ago

If you are in the UK you can also contact the competition and markets authority. I've also created a parliament petition, which has gotten the 5 min supporters it needs before they review and publish it. I will share it on HN once its published. Edit: removed the link to the petition for now (it'll come back after its published)

exceptione 3y ago

Trying to reach official authorities is a good idea. I will quote and extend part of my call to action I did in an other thread - ban Google all together in your personal life. No chrome and no excuses. Stop the bullshit or leave this profession. Use startpage, duckduck or whatever for searching. - develop with and for firefox and friends only, introduce usability problems for chrome - employ the same tactics as google. -> Bundle firefox with the software you are distributing. -> Like google did, remove the competition altogether from the users device. -> make your npm-module or your website slower in chrome -> let your customers know that your service for non-chrome users is cheaper. Money motivates. -> show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation. Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action. -> use as many tricks as you can think of to spoil the well for google. Destroy search results, fill their storage with /dev/random, whatever your imagination leads you too. You keep telling us you are so smart. Show it. - remember, Google's capital is data. Hit that and the beast will die.

xur17 3y ago
> show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation. Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action. If I recall correctly, this was Google's approach with Chrome.
- bmacho 3y ago
  So were the other items in the "employ the same tactics as google." list.
  - xur17 3y ago
    That's what I get for skimming the post, lol.
- thejosh 3y ago

bannedbybros 3y ago

[dead]

4oo4 3y ago

My thoughts exactly. These GitHub protests, while emotionally satisfying, do not work. Google does not care and they are already drunk on monopolist power. Contact info for antitrust authorities: US: - https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation - antitrust@ftc.gov EU: - https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en - comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.eu UK: - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition-or-market-problem https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition... - general.enquiries@cma.gov.uk India: - https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ I could not find an easy contact method for filing a complaint for the CCI, but it looks like this is the process? - https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atd https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atd Canada: - https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GH%C3%89T-7TDNA5 https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-e... I'm happy to share what I've sent to the FTC if others want to use it as a template.

lancesells 3y ago
Please share your template.
- 4oo4 3y ago
  I would like to bring your attention to Google’s recent proposal to add a feature to its Chrome (Chromium family) of browsers called Web Environment Integrity. This provides a mechanism to reinforce Google’s already dominant browser market position by creating a technological control that can be used to nullify a user’s choice of browser, device and operating system. This technology also has the potential for abuse by preventing users from using browser extensions that can enhance security by blocking unwanted and potentially malicious content, as well as browser extensions that help vulnerable users with enhanced accessibility needs, such as color blindness and visual impairment. Google’s dominant, near-monopoly position in the browser market already harms me as a consumer by reducing browser choices and preventing a competitive market for developing new browsers. Allowing Google to include this feature will reduce my browser choices and consolidate the browser market even further, and it is incumbent on [INSERT AUTHORITY HERE] to take action against this abusive behavior.

dottedmag 3y ago

Has anyone sent such a message to their authority? Please share, as more authorities (Norwegian anti-competition authority will surely want to hear about taht) need to be contacted with well-researched text.

scrum-treats 3y ago

> "Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?" Yes, I have. A couple times now. Google has been strongly signaling this since last year. No one wanted to believe it last year though, before the tech bubble burst. Now that people see Google isn't so awesome right now, perhaps more people will write and contact their representatives.

idreyn 3y ago

I wrote to the FTC: https://gist.github.com/idreyn/a37e4249b326243e1714b14780717067 https://gist.github.com/idreyn/a37e4249b326243e1714b14780717...

spudlyo 3y ago
This is excellent. Thank you.

GeekyBear 3y ago

> has anyone written to the respective competition authorities Just a reminder that several states have already filed an antitrust suit (in part) over a previous Google plan to turn the web into their own walled garden. > Project NERA was Google’s original plan to create a closed ecosystem out of the open internet. Google documents reveal that Google’s motive was to “successfully mimic a walled garden across the open web [so] we can protect our margins.” According to Google’s internal documents, the strategy would allow Google to extract even higher intermediation fees. A Google employee aptly described Google’s ambition for Project NERA to “capture the benefits of tightly ‘operating’ a property … without ‘owning’ the property and facing the challenges of building new consumer products.” Google main strategy to do this was to leverage its popular browser, Chrome, to track users, by forcing them to stay logged into the browser. Google did this by logging users into the browser when they logged into any Google property such as Gmail or YouTube, and logging them out of services when they logged out of the browser. https://mspoweruser.com/project-nera-state-attorneys-general-claim-google-is-planning-to-turn-the-internet-into-a-walled-garden/ https://mspoweruser.com/project-nera-state-attorneys-general... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903/gov.uscourts.nysd.564903.152.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.56...

Young-Lord 3y ago

For developers, insert this JavaScript file to block all WEI-enabled browsers from accessing your website. https://github.com/Young-Lord/fight-for-the-open-web https://github.com/Young-Lord/fight-for-the-open-web