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We're a YC company (www.post.fm) working on one of those ideas - email. We've encountered lots of headwinds as PG mentions, and we've managed to stay strong to

We're a YC company (www.post.fm) working on one of those ideas - email. We've encountered lots of headwinds as PG mentions, and we've managed to stay strong to our beliefs by keeping the team small and focused, and using our product ourselves to constantly remind us that what we're working on is better than Gmail. It's not been easy admittedly, we didn't come up with some small idea that could grow into an email replacement over time, or some add-on to gmail to give us early traction, etc. We focused on replacing Gmail from day one. And that's no small feat, cause who wants to use a minimum viable email service? We also realize it's a huge bet, and we may be wrong. But at least we're building something for ourselves, so we can't be too wrong, and that thought keeps us going. Can't say I agree with "Email was not designed to be used the way we use it now. Email is not a messaging protocol. It's a todo list." Email was designed to be the electronic version of a letter - an async messaging channel. Not some to-do list protocol. But with increased volumes managing all that mail became difficult (I'm sure celebrities still struggle to catch up with physical mail). That's the problem we want to solve, by letting algorithms and better user interfaces help you manage your mail. A to-do list is something different in my view, but naturally closely related (and should be part of the same application). A piece of mail often prompts you to create an associated to-do item, but today this functionality isn't integrated so we rarely bother. Sure IM, Twitter, and To-Do list apps chip away at some of email's use cases, just like instagram is doing with facebook, but we're confident that email can be just as good if done right. Now I just have to finish it and avoid thinking about my idea for the google-search-killer that would be oh-so-easy to try out ;)

chmike 15y ago
I'm also working on the email problem but on a different aspect. If, as PG suggest, you consider a new protocol, is there a way to share this work so others may build on it and contribute to push this big snow ball or do you plan to make it a proprietary technology ? I fully agree that SMTP is broken. It is so obvious when examining DKIM.
- akrymski 15y ago
  We're not creating a new protocol. Sure SMTP and MIME are quite awful, but the network effects if these standards are so vast that even Google couldn't make a dent with Wave. IMO a new protocol is something that can come later, we've explored that, but only an email service in a leadership position can make those sorts of changes to the standard thus forcing others to implement them. At the end of the day there can always be a more efficient protocol, but I don't think that's the biggest problem in email.
  - chmike 15y ago
    It all depends on the problem one is trying to solve. Since you are addressing the user experience, then indeed, the protocol is not in your way. It is, for the problem I'm trying to solve. Note that the barrier of network effect can be reduced by providing a gateway between the two communication domains (i.e. Facebook). I've subscribed to www.post.fm so I should be informed of your progress.
dwerew45234sdf 15y ago
You talk so abstractly. Can you give some concrete examples of how you would be better than gmail? In what ways will your service be faster than gmail? How much time will I save?
- akrymski 15y ago
  Unfortunately there's isn't much I can say until we launch, but here goes: we've created a social network where email is the mode of communication, and everything is organized around people and organizations. There isn't a single inbox as such, there are people, and groups of people, with correspondence between them. Like in Facebook or a CRM system. What Gmail query do you have to do to see the correspondence between you and PG, assuming PG has 3 different email addresses? How do you find that email from some company you don't remember the name of? These are just some examples of things that are truly intuitive on our system. I don't mean to sound snobbish, but it's a bit like trying to explain the first iphone - its like a PDA without a stylus. But we all know the iphone is ultimately so much more. So you really have to try it for yourself. I understand that claiming to be better than Gmail leads to lots of scepticism, and I have a huge amount of it myself every time I see a new email app. Luckily, noone has quite done what we're doing just yet, but its only a matter of time. All I can promise is - its better for me and all my friends that have tried it. But that doesn't mean it will be better for you, or for some insanely heavy email user like PG, but I sure hope so. Oh and in terms of speed, yeah its faster. In fact we've just had to rewrite everything from scratch to make it blazing, moving almost all the logic to javascript and caching everything client-side. And did I mention its awesomely beautiful compared to Gmail? :) But really thats the low hanging fruit - Gmail looks awful, more so every year it seems. Sure some people don't care about that, but I'm a horrible perfectionist which is why we're probably the oldest startup still in stealth.
  - dwerew45234sdf 15y ago
    Thanks for the reply. It would be really cool, when you guys are ready to go public with the product, to post a youtube video of a split screen of your app and gmail; going over killer features that might get people to actually sign up and try it out. I think many people need to actually see it first and then be motivated enough to play with your public beta. If your want lots of people to try , keep the video as simple as possible. You can't explain the iPhone with words, to someone who never seen it before. They just wouldn't be interested. Good Luck.
revorad 15y ago
Combining a better user interface with algorithms seems like the obvious angle of attack. But I think there might be a better one. Automate the whole thing. Get rid of the interface. You know those virtual assistant services people use to manage their mundane emails? Imagine if you automated all of that. It sounds like a ridiculous idea. How can I allow a machine to reply for me? But I would start with the simplest mundane use cases. If you can automate complete handling of even a small percentage of a busy user's emails, they will be delighted. On your end, you don't have to literally automate it on day one. You can semi-automate it with some human help and over time use the data to reduce the human input. Over time as the user got more comfortable, they might not mind automating more of their emails.
- akrymski 15y ago
  We do in a way automate classification of mail in certain instances, which allows the user to correct the system in case we get it wrong, but it's important the the UI is intuitive and doesn't seem like a magical black-box full of pretentious AI.

chmike 15y ago

I'm also working on the email problem but on a different aspect. If, as PG suggest, you consider a new protocol, is there a way to share this work so others may build on it and contribute to push this big snow ball or do you plan to make it a proprietary technology ? I fully agree that SMTP is broken. It is so obvious when examining DKIM.

akrymski 15y ago
We're not creating a new protocol. Sure SMTP and MIME are quite awful, but the network effects if these standards are so vast that even Google couldn't make a dent with Wave. IMO a new protocol is something that can come later, we've explored that, but only an email service in a leadership position can make those sorts of changes to the standard thus forcing others to implement them. At the end of the day there can always be a more efficient protocol, but I don't think that's the biggest problem in email.
- chmike 15y ago
  It all depends on the problem one is trying to solve. Since you are addressing the user experience, then indeed, the protocol is not in your way. It is, for the problem I'm trying to solve. Note that the barrier of network effect can be reduced by providing a gateway between the two communication domains (i.e. Facebook). I've subscribed to www.post.fm so I should be informed of your progress.

dwerew45234sdf 15y ago

You talk so abstractly. Can you give some concrete examples of how you would be better than gmail? In what ways will your service be faster than gmail? How much time will I save?

akrymski 15y ago
Unfortunately there's isn't much I can say until we launch, but here goes: we've created a social network where email is the mode of communication, and everything is organized around people and organizations. There isn't a single inbox as such, there are people, and groups of people, with correspondence between them. Like in Facebook or a CRM system. What Gmail query do you have to do to see the correspondence between you and PG, assuming PG has 3 different email addresses? How do you find that email from some company you don't remember the name of? These are just some examples of things that are truly intuitive on our system. I don't mean to sound snobbish, but it's a bit like trying to explain the first iphone - its like a PDA without a stylus. But we all know the iphone is ultimately so much more. So you really have to try it for yourself. I understand that claiming to be better than Gmail leads to lots of scepticism, and I have a huge amount of it myself every time I see a new email app. Luckily, noone has quite done what we're doing just yet, but its only a matter of time. All I can promise is - its better for me and all my friends that have tried it. But that doesn't mean it will be better for you, or for some insanely heavy email user like PG, but I sure hope so. Oh and in terms of speed, yeah its faster. In fact we've just had to rewrite everything from scratch to make it blazing, moving almost all the logic to javascript and caching everything client-side. And did I mention its awesomely beautiful compared to Gmail? :) But really thats the low hanging fruit - Gmail looks awful, more so every year it seems. Sure some people don't care about that, but I'm a horrible perfectionist which is why we're probably the oldest startup still in stealth.
- dwerew45234sdf 15y ago
  Thanks for the reply. It would be really cool, when you guys are ready to go public with the product, to post a youtube video of a split screen of your app and gmail; going over killer features that might get people to actually sign up and try it out. I think many people need to actually see it first and then be motivated enough to play with your public beta. If your want lots of people to try , keep the video as simple as possible. You can't explain the iPhone with words, to someone who never seen it before. They just wouldn't be interested. Good Luck.

revorad 15y ago

Combining a better user interface with algorithms seems like the obvious angle of attack. But I think there might be a better one. Automate the whole thing. Get rid of the interface. You know those virtual assistant services people use to manage their mundane emails? Imagine if you automated all of that. It sounds like a ridiculous idea. How can I allow a machine to reply for me? But I would start with the simplest mundane use cases. If you can automate complete handling of even a small percentage of a busy user's emails, they will be delighted. On your end, you don't have to literally automate it on day one. You can semi-automate it with some human help and over time use the data to reduce the human input. Over time as the user got more comfortable, they might not mind automating more of their emails.

akrymski 15y ago
We do in a way automate classification of mail in certain instances, which allows the user to correct the system in case we get it wrong, but it's important the the UI is intuitive and doesn't seem like a magical black-box full of pretentious AI.